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On this page you will find some of the questions, answers, commentary, discussions, health, humor, poetry, prayers, quotations, stories, and messages that were submitted to the Veg-Christian@all-creatures.org E-mail discussion group, or directly to all-creatures.org.
This page was established 2 January 1998, and updated 06 January 2008
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Table of Contents
Action Alerts
Animal
Animations - Animations with a message
Animal Exploitation Photo
Journal and Gallery
Bears - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Bison (American Buffalo) - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Journal
Cats - Animal Exploitation Photo Gallery
Cattle - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Chicken - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Deer - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Dogs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Dolphin - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Ducks and Geese - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Elephants - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Elk - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Equine (Horses, Ponies, etc.) - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Fish - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Fox - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Mice and Rats - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Monkeys and Other Primates - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Orca - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Pigs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Rabbits - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Raccoon Dogs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Seals - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Sheep and Lambs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Turkeys - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Whales - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Action Alerts
Agenda for a New America - "The Politics of Vegetarianism"
All Creatures Do go to Heaven - Hosted Web Site
Alternatives to Animal Testing - Article Series
Animal Animations
Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Animal Defenders of Westchester - Hosted Web Site
Animal Gospel - Hosted Web Site
Animalkind - Hosted Web Site
Animal Padre - Hosted Web Site
Animal Rights Online - Hosted Web Site
Animal Rights
Animal Rights Activism
Animal Rights Articles
Animal Rights Poetry
Animals In Print - Hosted Web Site
Animals in the Wild - Hosted Web Site
Animal Stories
Animals: Tradition - Philosophy - Religion - Article Series
Animal Welfare Organizations that Provide Rescue and Placement Services
Bear Kinship - Hosted Web Site
Bears - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Bison (American Buffalo) - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Journal
Book and Video Review Guide
Campaigns - To End Cruelty to Animals
Catholic Concern for Animals - Hosted Web Site
Cats - Animal Exploitation Photo Gallery
Cattle - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Chicken - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Christian Bow Hunters
Christ Loves Creatures, too! - Hosted Web Site
Coalition for New York City Animals - Hosted Web Site
Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages - Hosted Web Site
Committee to Abolish Sport Hunting - Hosted Web Site
Companion Animal Care - Article Series
Creatured Connection - Hosted Web Site
Deer - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Deer Population Control (Non-Lethal) - Article Series
Dog and Cat Food
Dogs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Dolphin - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Ducks and Geese - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Egg Production
Elephants - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Elk - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Equine (Horses, Ponies, etc.) - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Establishing the Rights of Animals in Law and Human Consciousness - Discussion
Fish - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Foie Gras - Duck and Goose Liver Pate
Food Hazards in Animal Flesh and By-products - Article Series
Fox - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
God's Creatures Ministry - Hosted Web Site
God's Little Folk - Photo Journal Series
God's Other Creatures - Photo Journal Series
Heal Our Planet Earth (HOPE) - Hosted Web Site
Help Animals (Japan) - Hosted Web Site
Humane Religion - Hosted Web Site
Humorous Animal Photos - Photo series
Hunting, Trapping, and Fishing - Links
Meat Free Zone - Hosted Web Site
Mice and Rats - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Monkeys and Other Primates - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Mourning the Death of a Loved One Is the Same for Both Humans and Other Animals
New Hope Sanctuary - Hosted Web Site
Orca - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Our Neighbors: The Foxes - Photo Journal
Pigs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Prevent Unwanted Pets - Hosted Web Site
Rabbits - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Raccoon Dogs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Seals - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Sheep and Lambs - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Shooting Ourselves in the Foot (some articles)
Sierra Malichi: Living in Peace with Deer - Hosted Web Site
Stop Animal Exploitation NOW! (SAEN)
Stop Cruelty in Churches - Campaign
Stop Fireworks - Hosted Web Site
Stop Horse Racing - Campaign
Stop Hunting - Campaign
Stop Puppy Mills - Campaign
Stop Wearing Fur - Campaign
The Heifer Project - Article Series
Turkeys - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
THE UNIVERSAL PRAYER CIRCLE FOR ANIMALS
Veal Production
Video Library
Whales - Animal Exploitation Photo Journal and Gallery
Wings of Mercy - Hosted Web Site
World Laboratory Animal Liberation Week - Hosted Web Site
Animal Stories
Art
Articles
Bible:
Books
Campaigns
- To End Cruelty to Animals
Commentary: (on this page)
Adventist Prophetess Speaks Out on Veganism
Animals in the Afterlife - Commentary
Bible - Arguing Over Passages - A Word of Wisdom
Christian Witness - Comments and Discussions
Comments and Discussions - Questions and Answers
Cult – A Cult Excludes the Blood
Cult – A Cult Includes the Blood
Cult – Christianity Seen as a Cult
Factory Farming - A Statement from NCRLC (National Catholic Rural Life Conference) with comments
See Discussions for additional commentaries
Discussions:
Health:
Heartbreak:
Humor:
Jewish Vegetarian Articles:
Letters:
Photo Gallery
Poetry:
Prayers:
Quotations:
Stories:
Adventist Prophetess Speaks Out on Veganism (submitted by Scott Hembree 4 Feb 1998 <hembree@entelchile.net>
Testimonies for the Church volume 7 pp. 135
The time has not come to say that the use of milk and eggs should be wholly discarded. There are poor families whose diet consists largely of bread and milk. They have little fruit and cannot afford to purchase the nut foods. In teaching health reform, as in all other gospel work, we are to meet the people where they are. Until we can teach them how to prepare health reform foods that are palatable, nourishing, and yet inexpensive, we are not at liberty to present the most advanced propositions regarding health reform diet.
7T.135.001Let the diet reform be progressive. Let the people be taught how to prepare food without the use of milk or butter. Tell them that the time will soon come when there will be no safety in using eggs, milk, cream, or butter, because disease in animals is increasing in proportion to the increase of wickedness among men. The time is near when, because of the iniquity of the fallen race, the whole animal creation will groan under the diseases that curse our earth.
As you can see she said "soon" over a hundred years ago! This should firmly establish that veganism was clearly the eventual goal for adventism which really should be being practiced right now by any concientious adventist.
Comment: For several years I have been trying to discern the extent to which my eschatological views have been influenced by scripture or by culture and teaching. I've looked in the Old Testament to see how Israel viewed the importance of this temporal life on earth and in the New Testament to see how Christ did, especially in his teachings of "The Kingdom" (e.g., "at hand", "within"). I have come to think this life on earth for all living creatures is extremely important to God. Although I don't understand why, the few minutes of existence that some insects have is part of God's plan to bringing glory to Himself. I believe for the animal kingdom, the here and now is all there is. However, "the here and now" is sufficient and part of God's mysterious plan. There is no after life. Which has important implications for us. We have no evangelism responsibilities for animals, but we do have responsibilities for the preservation of their temporal environment. (However, I could have sworn I caught my dog praying the other day that there would be no tics in heaven.) (Submitted on 15 Jan 98 by Ed Harris elh@okway.okstate.edu)
Comment: Recently Wesley's sermon, "On the Great Deliverance" has been cited as an example a great church leader who embraced the idea that animals might share a part in the afterlife. What has not been noted is that Wesley very clearly in this sermon said that he was speculating, and that he was not stating indisputable fact. Among his speculations was the thought that perhaps the only thing which separates humans from animals, "the capacity for God", which Wesley says is the image of God, might also be enjoyed by animals in the
afterlife. While Wesley is admittedly speculating about these matters, anyone who has read very far in Wesley knows that he is not given to groundless or wild speculations about matters of faith, and when he does speculate, it is not without some verification from Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience. I also understand that the Methodist Theologian William Willimon wrote a piece several years ago on the topic for Christian Century entitled "My Dog the Methodist."
In a message dated 98-01-13 10:16:21 EST, Mike Nacrelli wrote:"Regarding Dean Ohlman's claim that there is no reason not to believe that every individual animal will be resurrected on judgement day, let me offer a few:"
I don't believe the issue which John Wesley or Dean Ohlman address (the latter can speak for himself) is connected with the judgment day, but whether or not there will be animals in the new creation. Have I understood the original discussion here? Anyway, there will be a lot things in the new creation (a new heaven and a new earth, and whatever they contain), that will not undergo either a resurrection or a judgment.(Again from Mike) "1. This is nowhere taught in Scripture."
There are depictions of the eschatological age which include animals, Isa 11 comes to mind. If you are still thinking resurrection and judgment, I don't think scripture speaks specifically to this issue. You will find, however, that Judgment is reserved to separate *out of God's kingdom the perpetrators of injustice against creation (broadly conceived). These perpetrators of injustice are usually humans, and not goldfinches, rainbow trout, and bighorn sheep. If there are animals in the new creation, it could be by resurrection, but I doubt that judgment comes to play.
(Again from Mike) "2. The resurrection of humans is inexorably tied to our judgement, and the idea of animals facing judgement seems plainly silly on its face.
3. If each animal possessed an immortal soul, I would think killing them would be prohibited as it is to kill other humans."You would be hard pressed to find the term "Immortal soul" in scripture, but the term is thrown around quite a bit in both Christendom and this list serv. The scripture does not speak of the afterlife in terms of an immortal soul, but in terms of a bodily resurrection, as you mention in #2 above. Be that as it may, as it has been pointed out elsewhere in this group, the Hebrew term nepesh, "life" (literally "throat," then by extension "breath, life", often mistranslated as "soul"), is used to describe the "life principle" that both animals and humans share (it is viewed as being in the blood). In the biblical narrative, God first gave permission to kill animals for food after the flood. Even then, killing an animal is not to be done lightly, to shed its blood is to pour out the the sacred nephish, and so the blood is to be poured on the ground, sacrificially, as an act of reverence (see Gen 9:4, often in Leviticus), to fail to do this is an act violence which results in the people being cut off from the community of God (and God himself). Some scholars go so far as to say that the priestly legislation in the Pentateuch considered it murder to senselessly or irreverently
kill an animal--or to not treat each slaying of an animal as if it were a sacrifice.(Also from Mike) "4. I imagine that the number of animals (not counting insects!) that have passed on in the last 4 billion+ years is several orders of magnitude in excess of the number of humans. In other words, the New Earth spoken of in Revelation would be quite crowded if every animal that has ever died is raised to life in the coming kingdom.
Wesley was aware of the great number of species, and explicitly mentioned insects as an example in his sermon. He speculated that perhaps only a representative sample would be included in the coming age.
BTW: up until very recently I would laugh at the very notion that animals could "go to heaven." But as I began to think more seriously about what scripture says about care for the earth, and all of creation longing for redemption, what is so "unbiblical" about the idea?
(Submitted on 15 Jan 1998 by (Mr.) Laurie J. Braaten, Ph.D.Assoc. Professor of Old Testament Eastern Nazarene CollegeLJBraaten@aol.comCommentary: The literal translation of 'nepesh' is as Laurie Braaten states, but the meaning, in my opinion, is much deeper. The Biblical Hebrew description of the "life-form" of both human and non-human animals is "neh-fesh khah-yawh". Both words mean life, but when put together the only reasonable translation appears to be "living soul". If we look at the substitutionary position of Leviticus 17:11, again from the Hebrew, its the soul of the innocent animal that atones for the soul of the human. Did not the innocent, perfect human soul of the incarnate Jesus atone for our souls? Is He not the Lamb of God? Wasn't He to be the last sacrifice? Is this not the same as we are told in 17:11? I believe the answer to all of these questiona is, "Yes!" (Submitted 15 Jan 1998 by Frank L. Hoffman flh@all-creatures.org
Bible - Arguing Over Passages - A Word of Wisdom (submitted by Richard Schwartz 4 Feb 98 <Schwartz@postbox.csi.cuny.edu.>
I believe that such arguments can be counterproductive if we wish to reach religious people. If it gets down to which parts of the Bible people believe in, I don't think we will get most people who have been brought up all their lives with certain religious teachings to agree that some parts of the bible are not correct.
We could argue more effectively I believe that God's first dietary law was strictly vegetarian (actually vegan) (Genesis 1:29) and that this is consistent with our body structure, our hands, teeth, intestinal systems, stomach acids. etc.
Later God did give permission to eat meat, but it was a reluctant permission, a temporary concession, just as biblical permission to own slaves or wage war do not reflect God's preferences, but are concessions to the times.
We could then argue that God prefers that we be vegetarians (I have written an article, "What Diet Does God Prefer for People"; let me know if you would like to see a copy). We have a choice re our diet, but that choice should be based on a knowledge of the realities of producing and consuming meat and how they violate biblical teachings about taking care of our health, treating animals with compassion, protecting the environment and helping the hungry.
We could also argue that there are some indications that Jesus was a vegetarian, but even if he wasn't, would he possibly condone the horrors of factory farms today, in addition to the many other health and ecological problems related to animal-centered diets?
If we want to be effective in making changes in religious communities, I believe that we shouldn't challenge their religious beliefs or their scriptures, but that we should challenge them to live up to the highest values of their religions. How, for example, can one worship a God of mercy and compassion, if one is not compassionate and merciful to God's defenseless creatures?
Cult - A Cult Excludes the Blood: A Biblical Perspective (Submitted by: Scott Hembree 12/29/97 <hembree@entelchile.net>
I am ashamed that some among us are more willing to stand under the banner of "Vegetarianism" than that of historical Biblical Christianity. I only write this because the list is a Veg-Christian list and I feel as though Christians ought to consider carefully what God's word says before accepting lies. Are we really willing to sell out the gospel while twisting texts so as to make God the Father and His Son out to be angry over a system of animal sacrifices which had great solemnity and deep significance to the conscientious believer?
Looking back at Genesis I see that our first parents sinned by partaking of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and when they noticed that they were then left naked (the glory of God having left them) they went off and made aprons of large leaves. Adam and Eve were the keepers of God's garden and therefore this act of making themselves a covering of the leaves from their labor is covering themselves with there own works. God, after finally getting them to confess their sin made for them tunics of the skin of animals. These animals where killed to show that sin causes the death of innocent creatures and to prefigure the day when God Himself would become the sacrifice for sin (salvation by grace rather than my own works).
We see the same thing when not much later the two sons of Adam and Eve came of age to offer their own sacrifices to God and Cain, the elder, decided to offer a vegetarian alternative plate to God. The problem was that this "sacrifice" did not preach the gospel as there was no blood and "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins". Fire from heaven came down and consumed Abel's offering but not a spark warmed Cain's alter. This angered Cain and so he murdered his younger brother whom scripture ever after refers to as the first martyr. Was Cain an animal rights activist? No, he was simply disobedient and chose a course, which God could not honor for it misrepresented the Gospel.
I marvel that "Vegetarianism" could be in danger of becoming a cult itself by so blatantly ignoring the central aspect of the gospel which is the vicarious atonement of Jesus Christ which was prefigured in the animal sacrifices instituted in the tabernacle in the wilderness under Moses. The Sanctuary service can teach us much about the deadliness of sin and the power of the blood of Christ but to twist God's word into saying that He was against animal sacrifices will eventually lead to abandoning faith in the shed blood of the Man of Calvary. I for one, am a Bible believing Christian firstly and a vegetarian (vegan) secondly. God is indeed calling all mankind to "stop the slaughter of the innocents", but this does not mean that God never used innocent blood to teach all generations a valuable lesson about sin and the gospel. Here I stand no matter who will blast me.
P.S.: I would be willing to believe that as a secondary reason Christ was angry over the loss of life of innocent animals was that the apostasy was so great by then that the slaughter was taking place as a mere routine. This disregarded the sanctity of the lives of animals being sacrificed, but to say that God never had anything to do with animal sacrifices is to through away the gospel.
Cult - A Cult Includes the Blood: An Extra-Biblical Perspective (Submitted by Michael Shaw <mshaw@gtn.net>
Paul was promoting and passing off Roman Cultic ideas as those from Jesus. It was Paul who brought in Cultism, to which most Churches today adhere. Please read my brochure attached to one of my last notes. More is on the way. Hope this had added some activity to the list group! (For more see Christian Animal Rights Effort)
Cult – Christianity Seen as a Cult: (Submitted by Frank L. Hoffman 12/31/97 <flh@all-creatures.org>)
The early Jewish believers in Jesus Christ as their Messiah were seen as heretics by many of their fellow Hebrews and as members of a "cult" for they challenged the main line thinking of the Temple leadership. The blind man whom Jesus healed was cast out of the congregation (John 9). Peter and John were forbidden to speak in the name of Jesus (Acts 4:13-22). They stoned Stephen to death (Acts 6:8-7:60). James the brother of John was put to death with a sword at Herod’s command. And when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he also had Peter arrested (Acts 12:1-3). Often, what is seen as a cult in the beginning, can become an accepted religion over the course of time.
Factory Farming - A Statement from the Board of Directors of the National Catholic Rural Life Conference (submitted 10 Jan 1998 <NCRLC@aol.com>)
December 18, 1997
An Immediate Moratorium on Large-scale Livestock and Poultry Animal Confinement Facilities
Confined Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs) have become a national issue. A new hog plant in Utah will produce more animal waste than the animal and human waste created by
the city of Los Angeles; 1,600 dairies in the Central Valley of California produce more waste than a city of 21 million people. The annual production of 600 million chickens on the Delmarva Peninsula near Washington, D.C. generates as much nitrogen as a city of almost 500,000 people.
In North Carolina, 35 million gallons of animal waste were spilled in 1995, killing 10 million fish. In 1996, more than 40 manure spills were recorded in Iowa, Minnesota and Missouri,
double the number reported in 1992. Earlier this year, microbe pfiesteria associated with the poultry industry killed 30,000 fish in the Chesapeake Bay and another 450,000 fish in North
Carolina attributed to hog waste. Pfiesteria grow in waters with excessive nutrients. In the Gulf of Mexico, animal waste has helped to create a "dead zone" of up to 7,000 square miles. The Center for Disease Control has just released a report attributing foodborne diseases to food industry consolidation and the decrease in effective microbe resistance in humans from the antibiotics used to industrialize animals for confinement facilities.
The National Catholic Rural Life Conference (NCRLC) has for 75 years been a voice for participative democracy, widespread ownership of land, the defense of nature, animal welfare, support for small and moderate-sized independent family farms, economic
justice, rural and urban interdependence. Such values are drawn from the message of the Gospel and the social teachings of our Church. Furthermore, we see such values best represented in the agricultural arena by what is called sustainable agriculture.
In the light of present concerns about the industrialization of agriculture and environmental pollution as represented especially by the hog industry, the NCRLC supports efforts
for a national dialogue on Confined Animal Feeding Operations and their impacts on water quality, the environment, and local communities. Too much time has elapsed and too
much damage has been done without an adequate national dialogue on these issues.
As a first step, the NCRLC supports a moratorium on the expansion and building of new farm factories and calls for a serious consideration of their replacement by sustainable
agricultural systems which are environmentally safe, economically viable, and socially just. While the federal government, the states, and local communities reassess the structure of agriculture, such a moratorium seems especially urgent. Without a moratorium, the number of CAFOs will continue to proliferate, causing a significant increase in the devastating pollution, health, and social impacts by these confinement facilities across the country.
Included among the states currently dealing with CAFO issues are: Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington. Legislators, judges, and local citizens groups are reviewing the legal safeguards at every level to ensure clean water, a safe environment, food safety, and social justice. Such efforts are beginning to pay dividends:
In Indiana, for example, an administrative law judge has shut down a proposed confined feeding operation. In Kentucky, the attorney general has ruled that large operations are not exempt from local ordinances saying they are "not reasonable or prudent, accepted and customary." After two years of difficulties, North Carolina has imposed strong
restrictions on confinement operations. South Dakota citizens recently secured sufficient signatures (31,000) to hold a statewide referendum proposing an anti-corporate farming law
similar to Nebraska's. All but two of the 20 counties in Kansas had voted against new
corporate hog farms. At the federal level, a new bill has been introduced to regulate
CAFOs and a federal summit is being proposed to discuss animal waste management.
As the livestock industry has been restructured, a growing dependence has developed on enormous open-air lagoon waste storage and liquid manure application systems. These systems have been prone to breaks, spills, and runoff into surface water and seepage into ground water. The Clean Water Act is again to be renewed after 25 years. While reforms of
that Act are being developed, a moratorium on CAFOs is needed to forestall potentially devastating effects.
We challenge the notion that CAFOs, particularly hog factories, are a boon to local economies. Studies have shown that for every job created by a hog factory, three are lost. Every year, hog factories put almost 31,000 farmers out of business, out of their homes, and out of their communities. In 1990, there were 670,350 family hog farms; in 1995, there were only 208,780. Between 1994 and 1996, approximately 4,439 family farmers were displaced by the expansion of the top 30 pork producing companies, according to a recent study done by Successful Farming. While concentration in pork production grows, independent family farmers are being forced out. The same can be said about dairy, beef, and poultry farming.
NCRLC invites others to join the call for a moratorium and the replacement of factory farms by a sustainable agricultural system. The National Catholic Rural Life Conference is a membership organization grounded in a spiritual tradition which brings together the Church, care for creation and care for community. The NCRLC fosters programs of direct service and systemic change. As an educator in the faith, the NCRLC seeks to relate religion to the rural world; develops support services for rural pastoral ministers; serves as a prophetic voice and as a catalyst and convener for social justice.Comment: Perhaps "a step in the right direction." (Maynard S. Clark <info@vegetarian.org>)
Comment: Thank you for getting this subject on the line. Meat production practices fly in the face of Christian principles. This is a justice concern as it relates to our fellow beings. We must become aware of the horrors of milk/meat production. How can we even hope to clean up our environment with these practices occuring? How can we ensure a healthy life for future generations if we generate so much waste for profit? These practices are beginning to turn on us, and we are not ready. (Joanne Grazide)
Your comments are
welcome:
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