Paul McCartney, Heather Mills McCartney opposing seal slaughter on Larry King Live
KING LIVE - TRANSCRIPT
Interview With Paul
McCartney, Heather Mills McCartney
3, 2006 - 21:00 ET
LARRY KING, HOST:
Tonight, Sir Paul McCartney and his wife Heather Mills
McCartney making international headlines with their
controversial mission to stop something they call needless
brutality that others say they have to do to live; heated debate
with Sir Paul and Heather Mills McCartney and more next on LARRY
Good evening. Sir Paul and Lady Heather are
calling on the newly-elected Canadian prime minister to end the
annual commercial hunt for seal skins forever. They headed out
to the ice flows in the Gulf of St. Lawrence on Thursday and
Friday, their visit organized by the Humane Society of the
The U.S. moved to ban the import of seal
products in 1972 and the European Union instituted a partial ban
in 1983. But, by the mid- 1990s new markets opened up in China
and Russia reviving the sealing industry. One word of caution as
we begin our broadcast, because of the subject matter tonight,
some of the video we'll show is very disturbing. And, the
premier of Newfoundland, Danny Williams, will join us later to
give the government's position.
Paul, why did you get -- why are you involved
SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY,
PROTESTING SEAL HUNT: Larry this is something
that's been going on. I've been seeing pictures of this for
probably about 40 years now and I'm basically involved because I
think it's a cruel practice that should be ended.
MCCARTNEY: I got involved once I got involved
in the whole fur issue and was shocked to see that these seals
are being clubbed to death so inhumanely and brutally and they
say that it's regulated and watched. And, of course it is for
the six hours while the sealers know they're being watched.
They're going to behave a bit better.
But the Humane Society U.S. have hours and
hours and hours of proof of inhumane methods of killing and I
just wanted to come -- I was asked to come out here and, of
course, I had to. I couldn't actually sit and watch the
slaughter that's going to go on in the next two weeks with pups
under the age of one month old.
You know they say "Well, we don't kill white
baby seals," you know, but they lose their coats after 12 days.
That's like saying a baby is no longer a baby once it's a month
old, you know. It's barbaric, sorry archaic and really brutal.
What have you seen in person, Paul?
We went out to the ice flows yesterday and we were
helicoptered out there to see the seal pups and their mums on
the ice, so we saw them firsthand and it's a fantastic
spectacle. It's a beautiful wildlife spectacle and it's the kind
of thing that people should just respect and love. It was a very
And so, we went out and saw firsthand this,
this very beautiful seal population and the babies themselves
with their mothers. But it was -- it was terrifying to think
that in probably about three weeks time sealers will arrive and
with clubs and with pick axes and with guns will kill a huge
amount of these baby seals.
Heather, who are the sealers?
Well, you said earlier in your introduction that, you
know, people have to survive on this and we really researched
this because, you know, we did not want to come out here and
start, you know, cuddling up to seal pups and saying "It's
terrible that you do this" if people are totally surviving on
But it's just not a fact, you know. It's less
than five percent of their annual wage. There are many other
ways of earning it, you know. People once had Apartheid that was
traditional, you know, slavery, putting children up chimneys.
It's totally inhumane and they could have ecotourism here.
The federal government used to make subsidies
of $20 million. You know it adds up to about $5 million income a
year. America has boycotted. People have boycotted all over red
lobster and many other chains and they're losing $139 million in
snow crab sales anyway. So, there's just no economic viability
on why this is going on. There's just absolutely no reason
And, if the seal hunt was to be stopped that boycott
would be lifted immediately. The only reason it's in place is
because of the seal hunt. One of the very first things, Larry,
we saw when we came here because, as Heather said, we came with
an open mind and we understand, you know, the economic issue and
sympathize greatly with that.
But one of the first things we saw was a quote
in the newspaper from one of the fishermen themselves who are
the sealers. They are off season fishermen. And, this was a
70-year-old gentleman who said, "Oh, we don't want these
do-gooders to come out here cuddling up to the seals, saying
He said, "They are beautiful." He said, "And
then the next thing they'll do is they'll say that the seal hunt
is cruel." He said "And it is cruel." So, by this own man's
admission he said "But we've been doing it 500 years." We
believe that 500 years is no justification for cruelty.
And these are commercial fishermen. We haven't got
any issues or arguments with, you know, the Aboriginal people
using it for subsistence and everything. It's the commercial
fishermen who do this in the off season and earn between $1,200
and $1,500 a year and, you know...
You know, they can have -- yes, they can have a
licensed retirement, what do you call it?
Program and the federal government could pay that to
them and stop this seal hunt completely and then you wouldn't
have everybody boycotting Canada's seafood. You know the mass
majority and that's why Paul is showing we support Canada
completely, obviously huge innovators with the Mine Ban Treaty,
incredible, innovative people.
Most of them don't want to see the seal hunt
go ahead, you know. It's a tiny majority of people that are into
tradition and sticking to their ways. We even spoke to Phil
Jenkins from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on the
plane. We got everybody coming up to us and we're open to speak
And even he had to admit at the end of the day
its' not doing the Department of Fisheries and Oceans any good
because they're losing sales. They're losing export sales for a
tiny, tiny, cruel slaughtering of these poor little pups that
don't even get a chance to swim before they're clubbed to death
or even have their first solid meal.
Paul, why do they have to be clubbed? Can't they be killed in a
Well, they tell you that is a humane fashion. This is
the traditional, one of the traditional methods. There is a
clubbing that is one of the main things that happens here in
Newfoundland where we were yesterday. And then there is kind of
like a ice pick that is the other method and then there is
We believe that's brutal. I mean I think the
thing is anyone who's ever seen footage of this, as a lot of us
have over the past 40 years. I don't think anyone's ever looked
at that footage and said that looks humane. I can't think of one
person you could actually get to look at that footage.
And so, the kind of thing we're hoping for
because as we do say we appreciate the economic angle even
though it isn't the main economics for the fishermen but the
kind of thing that we are hoping that the Canadian government
and Steve Harper might be able to consider doing and we would
ask him to consider doing this is what happened with whale
There was a point in the '70s when whale
hunting was given up. The whale hunters then had their licenses
bought back. They were compensated and then whale watching took
its place. And now whale watching is one of Canada's most
And we feel that, you know, the success of
films like "March of the Penguins," this incredible wildlife
spectacle instead of it just being an absolute brutal spectacle
that really doesn't do any good for Canada's great reputation
could be turned round.
You could lose the boycott which would be very
helpful to the economics of the fishermen. You could change the
whole thing round into an eco-tourist affair that, like the
whales with the fishermen getting compensation, could end up in
a win-win situation for everyone, including the seals.
Let me get a break in.
But it's down to -- it's down to the federal
I'll get a break. Hold it. Hold it. We'll be right back,
Heather. I got to get a break. You've hosted this show. You know
we have to get breaks.
And, by the way, the premier of Newfoundland
will be joining us at the bottom of the hour. We'll be right
back with Sir Paul McCartney and Lady Heather Mills McCartney.
They're in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada. We'll be
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
In about three weeks time these baby seals are due to
be clubbed to death or shot in what's known as the seal hunt.
For many years, people have been trying to have this brutal
practice stopped but we are out here to see if we can lend our
voice to this campaign and maybe get it stopped once and for
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Sadly, you won't be able to stop these beautiful baby
seals around us being bludgeoned to death in the next few weeks
but hopefully we could if we all join together and put pressure
on the Canadian government to do what is just humane and stop
this seal hunt, hopefully this would be the last seal hunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We're back with the McCartneys. Heather, you were going to
say something before you were so rudely interrupted.
Well, I was just going to -- I was going to go back
to your question of why are they clubbed to death? The reason
they're clubbed to death, so people really understand this, is
because it's less damage to the skins. The reason they're
killed, you know, between the ages of 12 and 24 to 30 days is
because their skin is fresh. It's unmarked and it's going to be
used for the fashion industry for seal skins. You know when they
kill them later on, always generally under the age of one year
because then their skin gets too marked, they shoot them from
moving boats and most of the time they're not great shots so
they lie there, you know, in agony for, you know, Humane Society
U.S. filmed a young pup dying for an hour and a half before it
choked on its own blood.
So, the fashion industry don't want a marked
skin and that is why they don't put the second bullet hole in
because every second bullet hole reduces the pelt or the skin by
So, when you imagine within five days 80
percent of these 250,000 to 300,000 seals are clubbed and hacky-picked
(ph) as in a hook and slain around to death and that is not
humane, you know. Humane means kind and, you know, with
compassion. It doesn't mean that at all.
For a minimal off season income that the
federal government could make a hugely clever economical
decision to actually, you know, put the money to the licensed
retirement program for the fishermen.
Most of the hunters are actually desperate to
retire and 15,000 to 25,000 of them have licenses and 4,000 of
them still seal every year and the rest of the, you know, most
of them find it very difficult to do. And they would love to
have, you know, the licensed retirement program put in place.
Like the whale watching.
Like the whale watching, you know. It would be the
best move Canada could do. When they with the innovators and the
Mine Ban Treaty everybody said it's impossible. It will never
happen. And look at what's happened, 151 countries no longer use
those inhumane weapons of war that maim and kill men, women and
children. So, Canada can be leaders, you know.
Paul, are seal skins popular? I mean I hear of mink and I
hear of furs but I don't hear much about seal skins.
Yes, I don't think it's really popular and I don't
think it's a great item in the fashion industry but it is used
and but I don't think it's really very popular. I don't think it
would be missed sorely, you know. I think for the reasons that
we are putting forward, we're asking the Canadian people and the
Canadian Prime Minister Mr. Harper to consider.
We think this is something that could be done.
It's time it was done. I don't think there is a huge value
placed on seal skin. I think there could be more value placed on
the attractive tourist industry that Canada could create by
turning this whole thing around and banning the hunt.
How far do you want to go, Paul? Do you want to ban seal
skin sales? Do you want to stop seal skins in any products? Do
you want to see the end of seal skins as wearable items?
Yes, the thing is, Larry that that is what I think
would be a good idea. I think, as Heather said, these seal skins
are only valuable while the pups are young, so you are talking
about taking the lives and the skins of young baby seals that
actually haven't even had a swim yet.
They're totally reliant on their mothers. They
can't escape the sealers and it really is -- we've heard people
who have been and witnessed the hunt and I'm sure you will be
showing some pictures...
Yes, I'm sure.
...where the ice, which we saw yesterday in its
pristine state, where the minute that seal hunt is on the whole
place turns red. It's a bloody mess and I don't think there's a
reason in the 21st Century to do that.
And so what we're doing is trying to take into
consideration the other sides of the argument that are being
presented to us and trying to offer some long-term solution for
In actual fact from what we hear in
independent polls of the Canadian people when they're asked a
straight question "Do you want the seal hunt to continue or
don't you," they say no.
By the way...
And, if you go onto
you can see exactly what goes on and click on to say if you
support the ban of this seal hunt, so protectseals.org and any
help there donation wise can really help push this forward.
You know once the federal government, if they
you know open up their eyes, put a ban on this then, you know,
we are just trying to be mediators. We're not coming here to
dictate things. It's just -- we'd rather be at home watching the
telly with our little baby, you know. We don't need to come over
here and stand on the ice for five hours in minus 20 degrees
with the wind chill factor even worse.
You know we don't need to do this. We're not
going round dictating so we don't make money from this. We don't
make anything from this except we're totally devastated to watch
these images. And, I couldn't enjoy one second on the ice
yesterday because I just knew what's going to come in the next
few weeks, you know, and that's the reality of it.
By the way I need to...
We can either spend our lives just sitting being
quiet like so many people do being Mrs. Switzerland or we could
actually speak out and on the behalf of these animals with no
voices and trying to come up with solutions.
By the way, I want to -- hold on one second. We need to warn
people that they are seeing videos today they may find
disturbing. We need to mention that the video of the seal hunts
used today was provided by the Humane Society.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
You know people have been trying to discuss this seal
hunt for many, many years and the answer has just been that it's
happened for 500 years. It's tradition and therefore it should
continue. But we're hoping now that by bringing this amount of
attention to what is actually an international problem, not just
a Canadian problem, that we will actually be able to put an end
to this brutal practice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
This is a harp seal pup here and unless something is
done about it he's going to be clubbed to death in the next few
weeks. The fishermen will tell you that it's because they eat
the cod but that's not true. It's the over fishing that's led to
the demise of the cod.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We're back with Sir Paul McCartney and Lady Heather Mills
McCartney. Have you met with the prime minister Paul?
No, we haven't, no.
Have you asked for a meeting?
We rung him four times today and every day.
Yes, we rang him actually today but unfortunately he
was in a meeting. I'm sure that's true. But we rang him actually
just before we came on and we said, you know, "We are just
shortly going to be doing the Larry King show and we'd like to
offer you the courtesy of us hearing your opinion on this"
because no one quite seems to know how he stands, where he
stands on this. So, you know we would -- we would like to...
We've heard that he's a very compassionate man and
that he will, you know, find the right solution, you know, be
behind this. You know, obviously he cares about what the voters
think, what the people think, what he thinks individually and
supporting the sealers at the same time. So we, we just think
that this is an ideal opportunity for it to happen now and his
second name is Harper and these are harp seals, you know. What
more can you ask?
Paul, your daughter Stella, a famous designer, does not use
animal products right?
That is right, yes, and that's pretty difficult in an
industry like the fashion industry where fur is traditionally
used but she has made a stance from the word go and she doesn't
use fur or leather in any of her collections. And, actually
these boots Heather has on which look...
These boots they look like leather that I've got on
and they're not.
What are they?
They're just a plastic.
They're fake leather.
They're just a fake leather.
These boots are made for walking, Larry, and one of
these days you know what's going to happen.
You ought to record that.
I'll walk right over you.
Are you going to do -- by the way, oh I am told that the
Prime Minister Mr. Harper, has sent Mr. Williams, who will
appear in a couple of minutes, to be his emissary tonight, so in
a sense he's speaking for the prime minister. That would be the
premier of Newfoundland.
Great. We'll look forward to hearing.
So, we're told that that he has asked him to come to appear
and he'll be with us in a couple minutes.
Let's just take those few minutes, Paul. Are
you going to tour again?
Oh, yes. I'm always going to tour again, you know.
It's in my blood. It's what I do. I had a very nice tour last
year in America and it was great. I love the American audiences.
We played here in Canada. I love the Canadian audiences. So,
yes, I'm going to tour again.
At the moment, though, you know, we're over
here and this is an off period for me so it gives me a chance to
come over here and study this issue and try and do something to
end this 500-year slaughter.
Are you by nature an activist?
You know the thing is, Larry, I'm a grown up and I
have an opinion like anybody else, you know, and if after 40
years you've been seeing the kind of footage that you're going
to show your viewers, you either sit by quietly and do nothing
about it and most of the time say, gosh that's terrible, or if
you get an invitation like Heather and I had this time to come
out here and to witness the event, you finally feel that
something has to be done.
So, yes that makes me an activist. I do like
to see -- I do like to try and do anything I can to prevent
cruelty, particularly in animals because they don't have a voice
and this is one of the things being an international celebrity,
this is one of the advantages of it.
You know there are some disadvantages but the
advantages you can get time on a show like yours and discuss
these issues and hopefully people make up their own minds. We
want to try and present this to them in a fair way.
I'm going to get a break and when we come back, Danny
Williams, the Newfoundland and Labrador Premier, will join us.
He will discuss the other side of this issue and we'll get
comments from both Paul McCartney, Lady Heather McCartney and
Danny Williams. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
To see these beautiful animals and particularly the
baby seals helpless and, as Heather said, they are helpless.
They haven't even had their swim yet so they can't get away, to
see them really brings it home that this is a protest that's
been going on for many, many years now and that all the facts
lead to only one conclusion that it's time it was stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
It just breaks our heart. And I couldn't even get a
minute enjoyment out of going out on the ice knowing what is to
come. You know, if I had gone out there in a touristic way and
thought, oh, aren't they beautiful, aren't they lovely?
But I just can't help but look at them and
having a baby ourselves thinking, can you imagine you have a
baby and it's just taken away from you in the most horrific
manner. It's just unbearable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We're back. Remaining with us are Paul McCartney and Lady
Heather Mills McCartney on this issue of the sea hunt. And we're
joined now in St. Johns by Danny Williams, "Newfoundland and
And you have heard, Danny, the statements in
the past half hour. What's your overall response concerning your
government's position to the seal hunt?
PREMIER OF NEWFOUNDLAND & LABRADOR, CANADA, DEFENDS ANNUAL SEAL
HUNT: Well, first of all, Larry, let me welcome
you to Canada. And I want to thank the McCartneys and yourself
for this opportunity to basically state our case.
Just so your own viewers can get some
orientation, Newfoundland and Labrador is the most easterly part
in North America. And I know from your award-winning shows on
September 11th, we had 70 American planes came down here, and
13,000 of the passengers, American passengers found homes in
Newfoundland and Labrador for about a week.
So we welcomed them into our homes and
welcomed them into our hearts. And some of those homes were
homes that were occupied and opened by sealers and their
families. So I just want to give you some relativity. And I am
sure you already know, but I would like your viewers to know
that as well.
I thank you for the opportunity. I may start
off by, I think, my concern here is that the McCartneys are not
completely informed. I recognize that they're active. I
recognize their zeal. I love animals myself. I have two of my
three daughters all three daughters actually , but two are
animal lovers in the biggest kind of a way.
So for the record, I want to state that
certainly myself and my people in Newfoundland and Labrador
don't condone inhumane activity towards animals nor do we
condone hunting or fishing that would lead to the extinction or
endangerment of any species. I want to make that very clear for
Having said that, I want to start off with
just a quote from the World Wildlife Federation. I actually had
an e-mail from them this morning because they knew that I was
going on with you this evening and had this opportunity.
They e-mailed to let us know of their support
that they felt that this was not a conservation issue. And I
also want to read a quote from a group of veterinarians that
were hired by the World Wildlife Fund.
They said that the sea harvest is conducted in a humane way.
And the veterinarians concluded that the
Canadian harp seal hunt is professional, and highly regulated by
comparison with seal hunts in Greenland and the North Atlantic.
It has the potential to serve as a model to improve humane
practice and reduce seal suffering with the other hunts.
So I think it's important that we state the
other side of the case. And I'm very concerned that the
McCartneys are not getting all the information.
Greenland, they're actually boycotting your products
because they're disgusted at how inhumane your seal hunt is.
If I had an opportunity, Heather, just for a minute,
and I've just got to caution you, I was concerned in your
statements where you talk about inhumane and barbaric and
Archaic. Sorry. Let me clear that. I don't mean
barbaric. That's just a terminology I used with the land mines.
I find it archaic, brutal and cruel.
Archaic may have been a fair term in the past. I do
appreciate you saying that. Because that was something that
concerned me. The other comment that concerned me last night was
when you compared this to clubbing young babies, young human
babies. And I think that that's actually taking the argument to
I didn't actually say that last night. I didn't say
that last night. I said can you imagine if somebody took your
baby away at one month and it was told it was an independent
adult, as a lot of the pups are clubbed at one month old. I'll
clear that up.
Danny, let me ask you...
Actually just let me just clarify, Larry for just one
Why must they be clubbed?
Well, let me tell you two things. First of all, the
comment that was made last night was that, you know, baby
bludgeoned to death. And again that's sensational. And that
doesn't help the McCartneys' arguments nor does it help our
First of all, the information that hasn't been
given is that 90 percent of these seals are killed by bullet.
They're not all clubbed. This was a practice in the past. The
club that was used years ago was a Norwegian instrument that was
deemed to be the most efficient way of killing seals.
When in fact now 90 percent of all seals are
actually killed by bullet. It's very effective. It's very
efficient and it's very quick.
There's another aspect, which I would like to
point out to you, that this seal hunt since 1970 has tripled. It
has gone from 2 million seals to 5.8 million seals. That's
actually 12 times every person in Newfoundland and Labrador.
If we allow this seal population to completely
overpopulate, the inhumane consequences of that is that these
seals will starve. We now have a situation...
These seals represent the seals of not just Canada,
but right up to Greenland. It's completely normal for there to
be millions of seals. So let's put it in the right context.
I've got to get in a quick break and then we'll come right
back. We'll come right back with Sir Paul McCartney -- let Paul
get a word in too -- and Lady Heather McCartney and Danny
Williams. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Ken McCloud (ph) is ready for the annual Harp seal
hunt off Prince Edward Island. He is also prepared for the
attention Paul McCartney and the American Humane Society bring
to the hunt.
We've come to get used to the fact that celebrities
are coming up here and the animal rights groups using them to
try. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would just like them to see our side
of it like it is a viable industry. It has been highly
regulated. It is well looked after. Just because they say to
shut it down, does that give them the right to shut it down?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
The Department of Fisheries and Oceans estimates
4,000 to 5,000 people in eastern Canada rely on the hunt and the
$20 million it provides to the local economy. So there's a lot
riding on the actions of celebrities like McCartney.
Oh, it could mean $10,000 to $20,000 for every member
of the crew, which is significant this time of year. It sure
helps catch up the winter bills.
PFO is accusing the American Humane Society of
spreading false information about the hunt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We're back. And before Danny Williams speaks again, Paul, do
you want to say something?
Yes, I'd like to take Danny's point that -- what
happened in the 50s and 60s was, there was an over culling of
the seal population. And they dropped to a dangerously low
level. Where then the government had to step in and actually
stop it happening in order to maintain the population.
What is happening now is over the last three
years, that level of killing is happening again. And so even
though at this moment in time there may be enough seals, the
population could drop in the same way as it did in the 50s and
60s. And this is what we feel could be dangerous.
Paul, I can assure you that, you know, I am in
possession of all the facts on this. There are all about there
percent, and that is all of the seals that have actually been
taken. And what I had the opportunity...
Your department actually assured us that the cod
levels wouldn't go down the year before they have to stop the
fishing because the cod levels -- you're the same department
that showed the cod levels were fine.
What I was about to...
right. Let Danny finish and then Paul. Danny?
What I was about to say, Paul, is that what's
actually happening on the ground in Newfoundland and Labrador is
we're now finding that some of these starving seals are actually
going into fresh water rivers in order to feed. That's actually
happening. And another misconception which was corrected for you
Because you're overfishing. Because you're
...on the plane last night on the way to Prince
Edward Island that you were on the misunderstanding that this
species was in danger. But an official from DFO indicated to you
that this species was actually strengthening significantly and
now the herd has grown to three times the quantity in the 70s.
So the species...
Yes, well, now that's true, Danny. That is true at
this moment, as I say. But this is the kind of thing that
happened -- that people were saying before the 50s and the 60s,
and then they were -- they reached dangerously low levels, which
then did lead to the under-population. And you were in serious
And you now are killing the seals at the same
levels. The last three years, you've been killing the seals at
the same levels as happening in the 50s and 60s. So there is
Now, also this gentleman you mentioned that we
did meet on the plane. He came up and said can I put our side of
the argument? We said, yes, of course you can. We're not just
coming here just to tell the Canadians what to do. We're
interested in a debate. We want to find out for ourselves.
He said -- we said, well, the first thing
we're hearing, and we've heard it from a lot of people, I heard
it from a local MP, is that the real reason why you need to keep
the seal population down is because they are depleting the cod
Now, the man from the DFO himself said that is
not true. And so it isn't true. In fact the seal -- the harp
seals themselves kill a lot of the cod predators. And the only
single reason that the cods have been depleted so much is human
Paul, you haven't heard me say that that's the
reason. There is some evidence that could be part of the reason.
But that's not why the seal hunt takes place.
Well, what do you make of the argument that most of them are
Well, it's just not true. It's complete and absolute
rubbish. It's just not true. Most of them are shot and clubbed
in a hacky pick thing, which is a tall, long hook and then they
hit them once with it and drag them along the ground. And they
only use the one bullet. Again, because it's used for fur. It's
not used for any other thing.
There are two main hunts here too. Where we went out
yesterday, that's for the young seals. That is where most of the
clubbing takes place. And I think what Danny's talking about,
there's another seal hunt that happens from boats. And that is
at the front. And I think that is probably where most of the
But the point is, you know, however it's done,
the thing is, I defy you to show any reasonable-minded person
this footage and get them to say, you know, that looks humane to
We'll take a break and come back, and I'll ask Danny to
justify as stated by Heather. Don't go away.
Danny, two questions. One, what do the Canadian people think
of this? And two, what about this point of eco-tourism that you
could actually forget all this and increase your tourism
let me tell you a couple of things. First of all, Heather is
incorrect. There are 90 percent of these animals that are
basically killed by firearms. So I had to set the record
straight because I live here and I actually know.
As well, you know, there's an unfair
comparison that if you go into a beef slaughter house or a pork
slaughter house or a chicken slaughter house and you put white
sheets down on the floor, well then you're going to see blood.
And that's not nice and that's not pleasant.
But if you take the McCartneys' arguments to
the extreme that they're willing to go, there will be no beef
slaughter, there will be no pork slaughter, there will be no
chicken slaughter, there will be no fish in restaurants, there
will be no eggs, there will be no milk for children in school.
That's rubbish. We're not arguing that.
That is the extent. That is the extent of the
Try not to diverse it. It's rubbish. People eat meat.
People eat fish. People don't eat the seals, and they use it for
All right. Heather let him finish.
It's not relevant.
The other thing that's very relevant here, Larry, is
that -- and I don't attribute this to the McCartneys, but this
is where I think this is where they're being used. These
organizations, the IFAW, Green Peace, PETA raise significant
amounts of money. There are hundreds of millions of dollars that
are being raised by these organizations.
And let me tell you the FBI right now have a
file opened in their terrorism division investigating
organizations like this, including the PETA organization, from a
So there are some huge issues here that if we
had a couple of hours to go into, I would love to deal with. But
what I would like to do...
Why are you going off on a tangent? Why are you not
sticking to the seal hunt, the fact that it's used for fashion,
the fact that they are inhumanely killed and hours and hours and
years and years of footage to prove it.
Why don't you stick to the subject? You're
such a politician. You keep going off on irrelevant things like
beef that people eat, fish that people eat. People don't eat
This is about propaganda. This is about using
superstars like your husband. I invite you to come to
Newfoundland and Labrador. I will provide you with information.
I will provide you with documentaries that will indicate that
people from the IFAW who witness this hunt and said there was
nothing wrong with it, were fired by the IFAW.
I want you to come to Newfoundland and
Labrador. I want you to know the truth and the facts. And I'm
certain that you will partner with us and move this forward
because I think we can convince you that this is a very humane
Well, we're here, Danny. You don't need to invite us.
Thanks for the invitation, but we're here. We're actually in the
studio here. We are in Newfoundland. And we saw the seals
And the point is, you know, what we're making
-- the point we're making here is that this is inhumane. No
matter how much you say it is humane, it isn't. This is a small
percentage of the fishermen's income. No matter how much you say
This is nothing to do with the depletion of
the cod stocks. That's due to human overfishing. And there are
plenty of ideas that the Canadian people might be very
interested in, in the same way as whale watching has become a
huge industry, which used to be whale hunting.
It now -- and the point about this is, in the
international arena, Canada is known as a great country, a great
people. And this creates a stain on the character of the
Canadian people internationally.
Why are you so against the seal hunt being stopped?
Why do you not want to give the sealers an alternate income and
find a solution here so that the federal government, yourselves
and the charities can work together to make sure -- the only
people that will be harmed in a very small income way -- but
still that's the only justification here, if there are finances
taken from the sealers.
There's no other justification on this. Why
don't you want that to happen? Why don't you want to have peace
talks? Why do you want to keep going to war and doing this to
Heather, first of all, Paul, you're in Prince Edward
Island now. And I'm in Newfoundland and Labrador. I'm inviting
you to come to my province to see that. We are supported by the
World Wildlife Fund, a very reputable organization. This is
supported by the United Nations and the International Society
for Conservation. These are worldwide policy speakers who speak
on behalf of the international community. They see nothing wrong
with it. And I just want to make your audience aware...
And you don't pay anybody in any of those
organizations to oversee...
I am really sorry that the McCartneys are being used.
I've got to get a break in. We'll be back with some
We're not being used.
Don't go away.
Danny Williams, premier of Newfoundland and Labrador,
Heather did ask a good question, why not end it and look for
alternative ways? Why not end it?
you have to end it on the basis that there's something wrong
here. But this is about striking a balance in the ecosystem.
And, you know, this is being done properly. It's being done
humanely. It is a proper undertaking.
The product that comes from seal is not only
fur, it's meat. It provides shelter. It provides fuel. It also
provides omega-3 oils, which are used for heart problems,
arthritis problems, menstrual problems, liver problems. So
there's a worthwhile product.
But, Larry, if I could just add one point. And
I would like to pick up on something that Paul said. He's talked
about the cod and the endangered species. I would welcome Paul
and Heather to come and take up the cause for the fact that our
very rich cod stocks and ground fish stocks have been virtually
extinguished by overfishing by foreigners from the European
I plead with them to take up that cause and
see if we can restore those stocks that will create employment
for the people that live in my province.
OK, Danny. But the thing is, one cause at a time.
We're here because in three weeks time, the baby seal pups that
we saw and that the viewers of this program have seen are due to
be clubbed to death or shot, whichever way you want it. Their
lives are due to end.
And in this day and age, in the 21st century,
there's got to be an alternative. People look at those pictures,
people all over the world look at those pictures, right now, and
you will not find one person unless it's you, who says, you know
what, that looks good to me. That looks OK. Everything's
hunky-dory. The point is, it isn't hunky-dory.
It's disgraceful. And the Canadian people have
been polled, and when they've been asked in a poll that's not
loaded with all sorts of what-if questions, they are asked, do
you know about the seal hunt, do you want it to continue, a
majority of the Canadian people say they don't want it to
So we're trying to look at all the sides of
the argument, and we're just trying to offer you, Stephen
Harper, and the Canadian people a possible way out of this mess.
As I said before, you've got a boycott that's
costing you millions at the moment on the Red Lobster front. And
these are the kind of things that would end if the seal hunt
ended. It's a win-win situation, Danny. Go for it.
Paul, I've said to you, you also have to look, there
are 6 million white tail deer that are being killed in America.
There are 200 million cows that are being slaughtered...
Yes, but you're getting off the issue.
You keep going off it.
We're here to talk about the seal hunt.
There are 2 billion chickens that are being
slaughtered. Why is the fuzzy seal photo-op the important one?
Why aren't you down in a slaughter house where cows are being
killed or calves are being killed or lambs are being killed or
chickens are being killed?
Think about it. OK. Let's forget that you don't care
about the humanity.
It's quite obvious...
One at a time.
It's the easy photo-op where you can get the best
picture, so, you know, it's obviously that...
Danny, let her speak.
How can your accountants not look at a 129 million
lost in snow crab exports to America. One hundred and
twenty-nine million lost snow crab exports to America. Sixteen
million is the lost...
Heather, if you and Paul have your way -- if you and
Paul take your argument to where you want to go with it, the Red
Lobsters will close, the McDonald's will close, the restaurants
will close because they all sell beef or poultry. H. MCCARTNEY:
We're not trying to have them to close.
We're trying to open them.
We're trying to open them, so that they don't
That's exactly where it goes.
Danny, the point is...
We are trying to stop the boycotts on Canada.
One at a time.
Danny, can I just have a word here? The point is,
you're getting off the issue. You're talking about all sorts of
other issues. And that's very like a politician to do. We're
trying to just keep on the issue here.
We mentioned that there is a boycott that is
really hurting Canada, a boycott against Canadian seafood. Now
instead of wandering off the issue, Heather's saying to you,
why, if the seal hunt was finished and good alternative methods
like eco-tourism, like licensed buy-back programs, which have
been done before in whale watching -- if that were to be
considered by the prime minister of Canada, there is a way
forward here where even economically the fishermen would be
The boycott would end. The minute the seal
hunt ends, that boycott goes away. And so we're looking to help,
not confuse the issue.
Paul, if you had all the information, and you were properly
informed I would welcome your help. But the problem with the
boycott is that it is based on misinformation. And people from
the IFAW, independent scientists -- veterinarians have actually
looked a this and said that this is humane. The World Wildlife
Fund has said it is humane.
These people are not being misled. These
people know the facts they are scientists. I encourage you...
Are you saying you are not losing millions as a
country -- you are not losing millions in export of snow crab?
Are you saying that you are not losing millions on people that
are boycotting? Is that what you are saying?
I am sorry. We are out of time. We appreciate everybody's
participation. We hope the public at large learned more. Our
friends in Canada learned more.
And we thank all of our guests, Paul
McCartney, Sir Paul McCartney, Lady Heather Mills McCartney and
Danny Williams, the premier of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Meanwhile, it is time for "ANDERSON COOPER
360." Good night.
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