Chicago Police Department Interview with Srila Prabhupada (1975)
In July 1975, Lieutenant David Mozee, media relations officer for the
Chicago Police Department met with Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada:
"The difference between a pious man and a criminal is that one is pure in
heart and the other is dirty. This dirt is like a disease in the form of
uncontrollable lust and greed... and thus crime is very widespread. When the
people become purified of these dirty things, crime will disappear. The
simplest process of purification is to assemble in congregation and chant
the holy names of God... Then there will be no more crime... What is your
definition of crime?"
Lieutenant Mozee: "Any trampling on the rights of one person by another
person."
Srila Prabhupada:
"Yes. Our definition is the same... Actually, the first crime is that you
Americans are thinking this land of America is yours. Although two hundred
years ago it was not yours, you have come from other parts of the world and
claimed it as your land. Actually, it is God's land, and therefore it
belongs to everyone since everyone is a child of God...
"The age we live in is called Kali-yuga, the age of forgetting God. It is an
age of misunderstanding and quarrel, and the people's hearts are filled with
dirty things. But God is so powerful that if we chant His holy name we
become purified, just as my disciples have become purified..."
Lieutenant Mozee: "If I understand you correctly, sir, you are saying that
we should emphasize a return to religious principles? Wouldn't peace be a
precursor to a return to religion? Must we not first have peace?"
Srila Prabhupada:
"No, no, that is the difficulty. At the present moment, no one actually
knows the meaning of religion. Religion means to abide by the laws of God,
just as good citizenship means to abide by the laws of the government...
They are forgetting religion, taking it to be a kind of faith. Faith may be
blind faith. Faith is not the real description of religion."
Lieutenant Mozee: "Sir, there is a Christian parable that says it is easier
for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to come
before the throne of God. Do you think the wealth of the United States and
other Western countries is a block to spiritual faith?"
Srila Prabhupada:
"Yes. To much wealth is a block. Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita 12.44...
If one is materially very opulent, he forgets God. Therefore too much wealth
is a disqualification for understanding God. Although there is no absolute
law that only the poor man can understand God, generally, if one is
extraordinarily rich, his only ambition is to acquire money, and it is
difficult for him to understand spiritual teachings."
Lieutenant Mozee: "In America, those who belong to the Christian faith also
believe these things. I don't see any vast differences between the spiritual
beliefs of one religious group and another."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, the essence of all religion is the same..."
Lieutenant Mozee: "Would you want to start the program in an area of
affluence or an area of poverty?"
Srila Prabhupada:
"We do not draw such distinctions... Everyone needs to be purified. Do you
think criminality exists only in the poorer sections of society? When a
person is afflicted with a disease, there are no distinctions between a poor
man and the rich man. They are both admitted to the same hospital... Since
everyone is materially afflicted, everyone should be able to take advantage.
"The difficulty is that the rich man thinks he's perfectly healthy, although
he's the most diseased of all. But as a policeman, you well know that
there's criminality among rich men and poor men alike. So our chanting
process is for everyone, because it cleanses the heart, regardless of the
man's opulence or poverty. The only way to permanently change the criminal
habit is to change the heart of the criminal.
"As you well know, many thieves are arrested numerous times and put into
jail... Therefore, without cleansing the heart of the criminal, you cannot
stop crime simply by more stringent law enforcement... So our process is to
cleanse the heart. Then all the troubles of this material world will be
solved."
Lieutenant Mozee: "There are many Christian organizations in the United
States that give the holy communion. Why doesn't this work? Why is this not
cleansing the heart?"
Srila Prabhupada:
"To speak frankly, I find it difficult to find even one real Christian. The
so-called Christians do not abide by the Bible's order. One of the Ten
Commandments in the Bible is, 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.' But where is that
Christian who does not kill -- eating the flesh of the cow? My disciples are
trained to strictly follow religious principles, and therefore their
chanting the holy name is different from others'. Theirs is not simply a
rubber-stamped position. They have realized the purifying power of the holy
name through practice."
Lieutenant Mozee: "Sir, isn't the difficulty that although a small circle of
priests and devotees may follow the religious principles, those on the
fringe deviate and cause trouble? For example, assume that the Hare Krishna
movement grows to gigantic proportions, as Christianity has. Wouldn't you
then have a problem with people on the fringe of the movement who professed
to be followers but were actually not?"
Srila Prabhupada:
"That possibility is always there, but all I am saying is that if you are
not a true Christian, then your preaching will not be effective. And because
we are strictly following religious principles, our preaching will be
effective in spreading God consciousness and alleviating the problem of
crime."
Lieutenant Mozee: "Sir, let me thank you for your time. I will deliver this
tape recording to my superiors. Hopefully, it will be effective, as you are
effective."
Srila Prabhupada: "Thank you very much."
****
In his 2004 book, Holy Cow: the Hare Krishna Contribution to Vegetarianism
and Animal Rights, author Steven Rosen (Satyaraja dasa) explains the
philosophy and history of our sankirtan ("God-praise") movement to
nondevotees. He begins by quoting Srila Prabhupada as saying, "Real
philosophy is nothing more than this: ‘friendliness to all living
entities.'"
Rosen explains that devotees do not artificially renounce the material
world, but rather engage it in Lord Krishna's service. Offering one's food
to Krishna is a standard Vaishnava observance, which Rosen favorably
compares to the Eucharist in Christianity -- sacramental food.
This is an accurate analogy. Madhavendra Puri dasa (Steve Bernath) of the
Bhaktivedanta Institute reports that in 1986, when devotees in San Diego, CA
held a Jewish-Vaishnava interfaith conference, none of the rabbis present
would take prasadam -- because it was considered food offered to idols. On
the other hand, Catholic clergy have defended devotees against charges of
idolatry from Christian fundamentalists, and some of them have even compared
prasadam favorably to the Eucharist.
