School protects dairy posters while harming children
The following are actual transcripts including Dr. T. Colin Campbell
PhD’s testimony under oath as to the validity of the dairy industry’s
milk mustache’ propaganda in public schools. Dr. Campbell is on record
with the State of Illinois Board of Education in this case, as well as,
in
The
China Study, as evidence. Just like Gore, Oprah, and
Obama, the State of Illinois can no longer claim ignorance, the
following is an excerpt from
Peep Show For Children Only
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I would like to make a formal request on the record.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Yeah.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: There's a lot of discussion about milk posters and
what they say and how big they are. I would like them in as evidence.
MR. RILEY: I want to make sure Josh is with his mom.
MS. ROGERS: I missed the beginning. I apologize.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Let's wait until Mr. Riley gets back.
MR. RILEY: I want to put on the record, whenever I walk the people
out, I always tell the kids, whatever they say, you did a great job, and
thank the parents, and that's what I'm doing.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Okay.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: There's a lot of discussion about what the milk
posters say and no one really has a firm idea, including the man who
hung them up had no idea what they actually said. I think that we need
to see them especially in regards to dimensions. That was brought up
also. I think we need to see the actual concrete things that we're
talking about so we know what they are. And I would like to see them in
this room as evidence.
MR. RILEY: We're not putting them into evidence. It's our case. We
don't see it as even relevant to the case. And it's not been raised by
us. We're not talking about the posters.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Every time the milk posters have been raised there
hasn't been any objection to the relevance, and we have already made it
part of the
record. That makes it relevant. Mr. Cappellania hung the posters up and
he couldn't even tell us what they said. I think it's an important issue
in this case and we need to see them.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Well, in your case in chief -- I presume you're
going to testify, Mr. Warwak.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Yes.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: You can give me a description of the poster. You
can describe it for me.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I have a general idea of what the posters look
like. I have seen posters of that nature.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: They all say different things and we need to see
what they say for this case.
MS. ROGERS: One thing just to mention, as Mr. Cappellania testified,
the posters change from time to time. Even the ones that are there now
aren't the ones that are there in the fall so as to what they say, they
rotate.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: We know that. He did not offer that testimony. He
never talked about how they rotate. I would like to see the posters that
are up.
MS. ROGERS: Yes, he did. Go look at them.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Are you suggesting a site visit?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: If they don't want to bring them here, I would love
to go to the school with everyone, write down what they say and measure
them so we have dimensions and then return here. I think that it would
be a wonderful thing.
MR. RILEY: It's not -- the only thing I'm going to say is it's not
relevant to our case,Mr. Simon, at this point we're not putting it in.
It's our case and --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: But the posters are in your possession and Mr.
Warwak is requesting them. I suppose make a subpoena duces tecum to
request them.
MR. RILEY: I guess we'd object on the grounds of relevance. I'm not
sure what the milk posters have to do with the case. It doesn't have to
do with the
district's case. Mr. Warwak is alluding to these things but I can't --
it still doesn't have any relevance to the nature of the charges. Mr.
Warwak doesn't like the milk posters but the milk posters aren't our
case.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Just saying that there's no relevance doesn't prove
your point when we have been talking about the milk posters and we had
Mr. Cappellania on the stand, I'm -- part of the reason I'm being fired
is because of these milk posters. It has every relevance in the world.
MS. ROGERS: The milk posters have come up in the context of the
information that he gave children in class or at which he discussed with
our staff
members. Our questioning has simply been about that. What he discussed
has not been about whether milk posters are right, wrong or indifferent.
So the actual milk poster itself is not relevant. What Mr. Warwak told
the students about them is. That's been our line of questioning.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Well, I think the posters are relevant because
there has been discussion in the classroom about the posters. And that,
in itself, makes it relevant aside from the fact that they have been
discussed by both parties here at this hearing. The question is the
vehicle for bringing them into the record. Like I say, I have seen a
number of posters of this nature. I don't think I need to see every
individual one of them.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: They are all different. They say different things.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I know that. And I don't think we can put together
a compilation of all of the posters that have ever been displayed at the
school.
I think that for me, my purposes as the hearing officer, if you can
describe to the best of your recollection what those posters say.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: That is one reason I need to see them is because I
want to speak the truth, not my recollection. I want to see the actual
thing.
MR. RILEY: Could we make a suggestion about this?
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sure.
MR. RILEY: We don't want to take the milk posters off the wall. I
mean, we have got Mr. Warwak driving up and down on his Harley.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: This is irrelevant and that's already been
addressed.
MR. RILEY: I'm going to make it relevant. Now we're going to take the
milk posters down that Mr. Warwak --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: No relevance.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mr. Warwak.
MR. RILEY: Now he wants the milk posters taken down so the kids can
see that. What we would suggest is that the hearing officer, after
hours, can take a trip over there, take a look at the posters in their –
in context in the cafeteria.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I think -- what time does the school close.
MS. JACQUELINE KRAUSE: Students are dismissed at 2:40 -- band kids
and all that are there until 3:10.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Okay. We're scheduled to go until 5:00 today. Do
you anticipate going until 5:00?
MR. RILEY: I think probably. Dr. Krause is next and then we have one
student, but Mr. Warwak is probably going to have some cross-examination
of Dr. Krause. Probably take us to 5:00.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I'm all for going there and personally seeing them
after the students are gone with everyone. I'm fine with that.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I think that's probably the best solution and, you
know, whatever time we finish, as long as it's after all the students
are out of the school, we'll do a visit. I presume you have a key to the
school.
MS. JACQUELINE KRAUSE: I do.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: One of the responsibilities of the superintendent
is to carry the key to the school.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Excellent. Thank you.
(Now armed with ammunition)
THE NEXT MORNING:
WITNESS IS: DR. T. COLIN CAMPBELL PHD.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: That will ultimately be part of the official
record.
MR. RILEY: I was just saying good morning, Dr. Campbell. It's very
nice to me you.
THE WITNESS: Good morning.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION BY MR. RILEY:
Q Dr. Campbell, do you understand that today -- is it your
understanding that today you are going to testify about --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Why is he asking questions? I'm asking questions.
MR. RILEY: I'm asking -- I'm trying to --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: We're trying to stick with procedure and then you
vary it. It's not right.
MR. RILEY: I'm going to ask him to see what -- where we're going with
this just to get the qualification.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: You'll find out when I ask the questions.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mr. Warwak, he's entitled to voir dire the witness
on his expert status and we need to find out where his area of expertise
lies in relation to this case. And this is the procedure.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Okay.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Proceed without getting into substance. We're
dealing only with qualifications.
BY MR. RILEY:
Q Just so we understand, your expertise is geared towards, as we
understand it, talking about the merits of a plant based diet for a
school lunch program?
A That's one of my major areas of expertise, yes.
Q And you talked with Mr. Warwak about that and that's your
understanding as to what you'd be testifying to today, the merits of a
plant based diet for the school lunch program?
A That's kind of specific. In a broader sense I'm talking about the
role of nutrition in health and it just so happens that that broad -- as
opposed, for example, to genes or as opposed to, you know, noxious
chemicals and things like that. So I want to make that umbrella
statement.
Q Thank you, sir. So you're going to talk about plant based diets and
nutrition, correct? That's --
A That's -- yes, good nutrition involves the consumption of plant
based diets.
Q That that's actually a good thing?
A Yes. Exactly.
MR. RILEY: We're going to object because the merits of a plant based
diet is not what's at issue in this case, and I think that the hearing
officer has kind of made that point Monday, Tuesday, again this morning,
that that's really not what is at issue in this case.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mr. Warwak.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I brought -- I had asked Dr. Campbell to come here
and comment about the milk mustache posters, if the statements on them
are true or misleading. I thought if I got the world's foremost
authority on nutrition that's written the most comprehensive study on
nutrition ever conducted that he would be qualified to speak whether
those milk mustache posters are true or not.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mr. Riley.
MR. RILEY: The truth or falsity of the milk mustache posters isn't at
issue in the case.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: How is it, Mr. Warwak?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: It's what the whole case about. I went to Jerry and
told him that the milk mustache posters were wrong. No one listened to
me. Now I brought the -- they said it was because it's my personal
beliefs. I brought an expert here who's going to talk about science,
nothing about beliefs, and talk about whether the milk mustache poster
statements are true or false.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mr. Warwak, I will let you question the witness
with respect to the truthness or falseness of the milk mustache posters.
Limited to that. Let me explain, Dr. Campbell that I made it very clear
prior to this hearing and during this hearing that specific diets are
not on trial in this case; that this is not a hearing to determine
whether eating meat is good or bad or whether a plant based diet is good
or bad. That's beyond the scope of my authority so I am not going to
take testimony related to the quality of those diets and the effects --
I'm lecturing.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: This is not colloquy. I'm not here to take
testimony as to the effects of those diets on people. If you want to
limit your testimony to the facts -- the alleged facts as stated on the
milk mustache posters, that's fine.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Thank you.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: And I do consider the witness qualified in that
regard.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Thank you. I went to the school and we wrote down
what the milk mustache posters say and they're numbered, if you could --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: What exhibit did you refer the witness to?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: That one is --
MR. RILEY: We have Exhibit 5.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Respondent 5.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Correct.
CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Looking at No. 1, it says eat three a day of dairy for stronger
bones. Would you say that is a scientifically accurate statement?
A No. Absolutely not.
Q Why not?
A Dairy is the food that chiefly supplies the calcium in the diet,
much so-called good protein in the diet, and dairy protein in particular
which is the centerpiece of my research for 27 years, the main protein
of dairy is casein. It turns out that we could just turn on and turn off
cancer, experimental cancer -- this is published in the very best
journals -- we can turn on cancer in experimental animals in this case
just like -- that's the model that's often used to determine what causes
cancer and what doesn't, I should say. But in any case, we can turn on
cancer by feeding casein at levels above the required amount of protein.
It was dramatic. We studied it in great detail. Just in that subject
alone we must have at least 50 peer reviewed publications. We know a lot
of how it works. If the fact that casein which probably represents
animal protein in general, if that's substituted with plant protein,
that doesn't happen even when the plant protein is at significantly
higher levels. So in coming back to your question, that alone suggests
that consumption of dairy, especially at the younger ages, is a problem.
This was a finding that I had a hard time accepting as I went through my
career because I came from a dairy farm and my early research was
focused on exactly the opposite proposition. In addition to calcium --
this is why I brought along some of these slides here that I often give
in my lectures. It turns out the higher the consumption of calcium which
obviously primarily comes from dairy, the higher the consumption of
calcium, the higher the rate of osteoporosis which the dairy industry
will -- that's their main claim when they make these kind of claims.
They say strong bones and teeth. We've all heard that. I heard that as a
kid, when in reality, higher calcium diets develop, you know, primarily
provided by dairy is associated with higher osteoporosis and not lower.
That's been known for a long time. Not been publicized. The dairy
industry does not want to talk about that. Another reason -- I just
yesterday, by coincidence, was sent a paper that just came out from a
major study in Britain showing that children consuming higher levels of
dairy have a threefold higher -- that's a lot -- a threefold higher risk
of colon cancer later in life. I think those reasons alone -- I could
name many more -- that's why I say this is absolutely false.
Q So you would say that eat three a day of dairy for stronger bones
is a false statement?
A Yes.
Q Do you think a false statement should be hanging in a school?
MR. RILEY: Objection. Qualifications of the witness.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: He's highly qualified. He works with the lunch
program. He's instrumental in making laws and going before boards and
he's very qualified.
MR. RILEY: The ruling was that he was to testify about the milk
posters, not about whether he thinks they should or should not be
hanging in school.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I'll let him express an opinion. You may answer the
question.
THE WITNESS: No, I don't think they should be hung in public places,
especially in school programs because the work that I have developed
over the years with my colleagues, one group that is most susceptible,
is vulnerable to wrong information are children. If children cannot, in
fact, have access to the correct information, they're setting a pattern
that most likely that will leave them with an imprint for the rest of
their lives as this paper just came out from London.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Excellent.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Take a look at No. 2. It says bone up on calcium and other
important nutrients. Three servings of milk, cheese or yogurt each day
is a delicious way to build stronger bones and a healthy body. And that
was sponsored by Adidas Shoe Company. Would you say that statement is
true?
A No.
Q Why not?
A That statement came from the food – from the dietary guidelines
committee of the United States Department of Agriculture. It usually had
10, 11, 12 members that are rotated every five years. The penultimate,
not the one at the moment, but the one previously was chaired by people
I know, a man I know very well. I know the members of the committee.
They were actually sued in Washington. Legal action was brought against
them and they're all professors and the like. There was legal action
brought against them to reveal their association with the dairy
association, either getting personal compensation or getting research
money. United States Department of Agriculture would not release these
so-called conflicts of interest statements that we all have to do. They
would not make this information public when, in fact, the Freedom of
Information Act specifically said they had to be public. So it went to
court. It rested in the court for eight months. The judge made a
decision they had to reveal their association with the dairy industry.
Six of the eleven members of that committee including the chair had an
association with the dairy industry. And the chair, in fact, himself had
taken more money without telling the public about it than he was allowed
under the law. So the policy -- this policy of this three servings of
milk per day comes from that committee and it's heavily influenced by
the dairy industry. So it's a self-serving statement for the industry of
course.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q So you're saying the people that are making these recommendations
are sometimes doctors but they're corrupt doctors?
MR. RILEY: Objection.
THE WITNESS: I don't like to use the word corrupt.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sustained.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Take a look at No. 3. It says win by U.S. and then it has
celebrities. I'm sure you've seen the milk mustache posters that have
celebrities. It has five women on there and two of them, I believe, are
African-American. It says body by milk. Some studies suggest teens who
choose milk instead of sugary drinks tend to be leaner, plus the protein
helps build muscle. America's milk producers. It was sponsored by them.
That's why their name is on there. Then they link to a web site
bodybymilk.com. And if you go to that web site they --
MR. RILEY: Objection, foundation.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sustained.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q What do you think of that milk mustache poster, what it's saying?
Is that a true statement?
A I think you raised two questions. One was having to do with the
African-American group. Secondly I think you were talking about
celebrities, athletes. This is as I see it here. Two comments: First
off, the African-American community as well as the Hispanic community, I
should add, have a very high proportion of those children are lactose
intolerant which is an indication -- that in and of itself can be
problematic but that's an indication of a serious or a would be serious
allergy as children go forward. The second thing is that as far as
athletes are concerned, I've worked with world class athletes. The most
recent being and that's what I put this last statement -- you may have
seen in this the Wall Street Journal. It's the biggest article I have
ever seen in the Wall Street Journal. In fact –
ARBITRATOR SIMON: We don't have that in evidence here.
THE WITNESS: In any case, it's --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Can we enter it in evidence?
THE WITNESS: He's a world class athlete --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: This is part of the packet here?
THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: It's two pages?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: You have that, Mr. Riley?
THE WITNESS: This is turning out to be a -- I'm sorry.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Just a second.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: It's the very last two pages.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mark this Respondent 9.
(Whereupon, Respondent Exhibit No. 9 was marked for identification.)
MR. RILEY: I'm so sorry. It's this. I think -- objection, foundation.
I think if Dr. Campbell wants to talk about it, he can, but we would
object on the grounds of foundation.
THE WITNESS: Want me to continue? No? Okay.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Let me understand, Mr. Warwak, what the portion of
this -- these two pages we're looking at are the picture on the first
page and the item in the upper left-hand corner on the second page?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I'll take that exhibit with the note that there's a
jump to another page that is not in the exhibit.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Call that respondent --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: This is Respondent 9.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: You may continue. You were in midstream before you
were interrupted.
THE WITNESS: I was talking about athletes and I did bring this along
because I know this is a very sensitive area. Professional athletes have
a mindset that consuming very high protein diets especially whey protein
and dairy products and wheat, it's what makes them do their stuff.
Actually there's some old data, from a hundred years ago, showing that
is mischievous. And this gentleman here, Tony Gonzalez -- you may know
his name -- he's an all pro end for the Kansas City Chiefs and he's
destined for the hall of fame, I'm sure. He got a copy of my book when
he was on a plane. This is what the Wall Street Journal tells. This
incident is only part of the article. The part that is not here is
talking about me about this. But in any case, he got the book. He
decided to try this way of eating. At the beginning of last season and
the Kansas City Chiefs actually train here in – nearby here in
Wisconsin. And I have a friend who's a – runs a -- is a body building
friend. And he trains professional athletes as well, works with world
class athletes. And his gym is nearby where they were training. So I
linked them up. His name is John Himes. And Tony Gonzalez. And John told
him that he's trying to get his clients, you know, eating this way in
order for -- to get better bodies. Tony called me up when he started
this whole thing and was a little concerned because he lost some weight
and professional football players don't particularly like to lose weight
obviously. Lost seven pounds. And wanted to know what I thought about
all this. Because he said he felt better when he was living on the plant
based diet. And I told them there was literature on that, I happened to
know, in working with other athletes that they do gain. So between John
here in Wisconsin and myself, Tony decided to go with this program for
the last season. And so he went through the season eating this way and
he won -- he came in first. This is his eleventh season. He's supposed
to be over the hill. He came in first place this year for the most
catches of a tight end in the NFL. In fact, this past season he broke
the all-time record for the most catches, the most touchdown passes and
the most yards gained of any NFL tight end in the history of the
National Football League. He's been quizzed on it on national TV. He was
recently on ESPN and the interviewer asked him, did you really do that?
And he said, yes. And he said, why did you do it? He said, because I
felt better. And he had more agility and more energy and so forth.
There's another issue -- the reason this is such an important issue --
and Tony is the one filled me in on this. I had already have information
otherwise. But the average age of death of National Football League
players is 56 years. 56 years. Because they are -- in fact, they're
dying of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and diet related illnesses. I
thought it was 53 based on what Dave Scott, he's the guy who won the
Ironman Triathlete some years ago, he was in my class and stayed with
me. He was working with the NFL at that time as a consultant. He told us
it was 53 years for the linemen. I said that to Tony, I said I heard
this but I don't have any verification of it. So he stopped me in mid
sentence – he calls me Doc -- he says, Doc, he says I want to tell you,
he says the fact of the matter is for all NFL players the average age of
death is 56 years. If this is all true, and I'm only telling you what I
have learned, and the theoretical basis for this, if this is true, this
is a big story. The Wall Street Journal got wind of this and contacted
me, interviewed me, went to see Tony, and wrote this article. Largest
article I have ever seen in the Wall Street Journal. So athletes, coming
back to the athletes question, you're asking me about athletes, I could
name a number of athletes, world class athletes such as Carl Moses, the
most gold medals in the history of the Olympics. Gary Player, might
probably know who Gary Player is, the famous golfer. Gary Player had got
the book here about a couple years ago, he was going to be on national
TV, and he wanted to know if he could mention this on TV. I said, sure,
go for it. So he did.
MR. RILEY: We're going to object at this point and we're going to
object, with all due respect to Dr. Campbell, it's way beyond, we
believe, the question of the milk posters.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sustained.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Mr. Warwak told his kids that if they try a vegan diet they can
live five to ten years longer. Would you say it's a true statement?
MR. RILEY: Objection. The testimony was supposed to be limited to the
milk posters.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I feel the question is very relevant. Object to the
question other than it's not a milk mustache poster question.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I thought you proffered the witness to talk about
the --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Is there a problem with that question? It's a very
relevant question. You know, Mr. Warwak told his kids that they're going
to live five to ten years longer, you had every kid up here saying that
Mr. Warwak said this, Mr. Warwak said this and you're trying to use that
against me. I'm asking the world's foremost authority if that's a true
statement or not. I think it's very relevant.
MR. RILEY: We actually had this discussion right at the beginning of
the testimony and it had to do with what's the scope of Dr. Campbell's
testimony, and it was going to be about the milk posters. Now we're --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I just broadened it.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: That was your proffer of the witness, Mr. Warwak. I
didn't limit you as to why you were offering the witness. This is what
you said and --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I didn't say that was the only thing. I brought him
--
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Mr. Warwak, you were asked what the witness was
here to testify to and you explained that he would testify --
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I did not say only. This is a very relevant
question.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Well, I'm limiting the witness' testimony to that.
That's what you proffered the witness for.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Do you think that if the athletes, when they're young and they
don't try the vegan diet, that they're putting their life at risk maybe
by five, ten years less?
MR. RILEY: Objection.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. RILEY: Move to strike the answer, objection. Same objection. He's
been proffered to talk about the milk posters. Dr. Campbell has been
proffered to talk about the milk posters. You have made your rulings
multiple times, Mr. Simon, on this point. It's not about a vegan diet or
plant based diet.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I don't see any reference to vegan diet or plant
based diet in the exhibit Respondent 5. It's limited to dairy products.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: We just entered this exhibit in and it says vegan
on the top of it.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I just limited your questioning, Mr. Warwak.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: To?
ARBITRATOR SIMON: The milk posters.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Okay.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q When an athlete sees a milk mustache poster, does he believe that
milk will be good?
MR. RILEY: Objection as to what an athlete believes when he sees a
milk poster. Form of the question.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sustained. The witness can't know what an athlete
might think.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Do you think that it's wise to have an athlete promoting milk on a
poster?
A No.
Q Why not?
A Well, we now have excellent evidence, for example, as published in
the literature to show that on average people do live in fact 10 to 12
years longer who are consuming, you know, a vegan-like diet. That means
no dairy, by the way. And one of the key elements of that longer life,
in fact, is basically dairy.
Q Excellent. What about the statement body by milk, what is that
saying? It's on No. 4. It's their slogan body by milk. What are they
saying with that? What scientific statement are they making with that?
A I don't know.
Q Are they making any scientific basis to that statement?
A I suspect they're meaning stronger bones and teeth and perhaps more
muscle, my guess.
Q That same poster, No. 4, has basketball player celebrity Steve
Nash. He's promoting drinking three glasses of low fat milk a day. Is
that a -- is he qualified to be promoting that?
A I don't know Steve Nash. I'm going to suggest he's not qualified.
Q Do you think you're qualified to make an assessment on that
statement?
A Yes.
Q What do you think about that statement?
A Well, to elaborate a little bit on the question you just asked me,
when I say Steve Nash is not qualified, Tony Gonzalez incidentally wears
a milk mustache. He was contracted by the dairy industry. And his
picture is on the billboards in Kansas and that part of the country. And
so he knows well -- in fact, he told me, he says, I don't know what to
do with this information so he's got -- he's wrestling himself with this
question, why athletes have been targeted.
Q Excellent. Then getting back to that drink three glasses of low fat
milk a day, so they're just saying drink it. Are they saying anything
else?
A Yes.
MR. RILEY: Objection. Document speaks for itself. They're saying
drink it.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Rephrase the question.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q It says drink three glasses of low fat milk a day. Do you think
that's good advice?
A No.
Q Why not?
A The inference there is that if one consumes milk that's low in fat,
there might be some enhancement of health. That comes from old
literature 20, 30, 40 years ago. However, low fat milk is higher in
protein and it's the protein that causes us the problem. In fact, if you
look in your packet -- you don't have the packet there -- the
relationship between skim milk intake and prostate cancer is very
impressive. And skim milk has protein, it does not have fat. It's really
the protein that is the culprit here. So that's why I say this low fat
milk, the suggestion is that somehow it's healthier, I guess, when in
fact it's not.
Q Would you say recommending a child to drink three glasses of low
fat milk a day will be setting them up for prostate cancer?
A Yes.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: At least the male students.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Yes. Thank you.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q How is that going to affect female students drinking three glasses
of low fat milk a day?
A Well, men, of course, have prostate cancer as their reproductive
cancer, as we say in the trade. Women have uterine cancer, breast cancer
and endometrial cancer. That's their vulnerability. What we see with
respect to milk and prostate cancer for men we also see very impressive
relationship between milk consumption and breast cancer and uterine
cancer and endometrial cancer for women possibly and probably involving
the same kind of sort of biochemical mechanisms involving hormones and
all that sort of stuff.
Q Would you say instead of saying drink three glasses of low fat milk
a day, if they said drink three glasses of water a day, would that be
putting them at risk of cancer?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q But the milk would be?
A Yes.
Q So is it safe to say that we're putting kids at risk of getting
cancer by recommending that they drink three glasses of low fat milk a
day?
MR. RILEY: I'm just going to object because I think he's already --
Dr. Campbell has already said this.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I think so.
MR. RILEY: I think we get the idea.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q It also says some studies suggest the protein in milk helps build
muscle. What do you think of that statement?
MR. RILEY: I object because I think -- with all due respect, Dr.
Campbell, Dr. Campbell has already talked about the effect of protein in
milk. He talked about the casein at the beginning.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: He didn't talk about the muscle.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I'll allow the question.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I'll allow the question.
THE WITNESS: Well, for one thing, extra protein does help to build
muscle, but I should qualify that statement. Protein is an essential
nutrient, by the way. It's absolutely essential. So it's not a question
of sort of, you know, protein per se being a toxic element, it's not.
What I'm talking about is that the amount of protein that's actually
required as a percent of total energy is 10 percent of the diet.
Consuming up to 10 percent, the data suggests that's quite safe. Going
beyond 10 percent on up to 20, 25, even 30 in these days as some people,
especially most athletes, that's where the problem arises. And so as
that protein is increased there that's why where you see the sharp
increases in cancer risks, cholesterol levels, atherogenesis which is a
heart disease problem, osteoporosis and so forth and so on. The question
is is that -- so it's the excess protein. Turns out that we humans, 95
percent of us in this country are consuming protein somewhere between 11
percent and 22 percent, so we're consuming in excess. And virtually all
of that excess is coming from animal based foods, dairy being a chief
contributor. And so in terms of building muscle to go back to your
question, protein can help to build muscle. Athletes know this. That's
one of the reasons they do it. There's no question about that. The
question is, is that the right kind of muscle. Muscle has different
characteristics. One can pay a price for getting the wrong kind of
muscle. Muscle, for example, that's sort of meshed with a lot of fat in
livestock, go back to that question, it's called marbling – marbled
meat, I'm sure you probably heard of that expression. That's fat being
meshed in the muscles, the cells are somewhat larger because they're
consuming more protein. That kind of muscle gives mass helpful to the
guys on the line pushing people around perhaps but it does not give rise
to muscle tone. Muscle tone is another issue. Also, recovery in most
athletes is important. Endurance is yet a third thing. So in talking
about athletic performance, unfortunately much of the evidence has been
focused on muscle mass. And protein will do that. But interestingly so
will plant protein do that. That's what Tony did. Instead of taking whey
protein and animal protein, he took the plant protein. Got that from the
champion triathlete in Canada who actually has some of that product
himself. So I think taking a little extra protein above the 10 percent,
that's what Tony did, yeah, could sustain some muscle mass, but it's
better quality muscle. That's the issue.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q The second part of that statement says plus teens who choose it
instead of sugary drinks tend to be leaner. Do you know of any studies
that compared drinking milk versus drinking sugary drinks and someone
becoming leaner?
A Lot of these questions are becoming a little more complicated than
that. The industry has and was telling people, children especially,
during the last three or four years that studies were showing that they
could control obesity by consuming dairy instead of soft drinks. And the
studies that have been done, there's some evidence that consuming dairy
instead of soft drinks in that sense may lead to lower body weight which
would favor their argument, if you will. But later that would come out
that because when they're consuming dairy they don't drink soft drinks
and soft drinks are the problem. Soft drinks are actually the problem.
And so there was a lawsuit brought against that in Washington about
their claim, their health claim. And I was invited actually to give a
presentation at the National Press Club on this question and one of my
former students reviewed the data. And the dairy industry had 17 studies
that they cited as evidence. We looked at those 17 studies. 15 studies
did not show that at all. Two studies showed that as kids increased
dairy, body weight comes down a bit and that was probably the lack of
consuming soft drinks first. And, secondly, both of those studies were
done by a professor at East Tennessee State University and was funded by
the dairy industry. And the New York Times wrote this up. And East
Tennessee State University gets, according to the testimony that was
given there at the time, something like $500,000 a year as a result of
participating. This gentleman himself also gained financially
substantially from having done that work. That was the work -- and that
lawsuit did bring a lot of pressure on the industry and they withdrew
it. That's why today for the most part you tend not to see that claim
anymore, that it leads to lower body weight. There's still some ads, I
think can be interpreted to mean that the dairy industry is still
pushing that idea. Not really acceptable.
Q No. 6, the second or the third sentence says be sure to eat milk,
cheese and yogurt which pack calcium and lots of other nutrients?
MR. RILEY: Objection. That's not my No. 6. Am I misreading this?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I'm sorry, it's the third sentence in No. 6. Be
sure to eat milk, cheese and yogurt which pack calcium and lots of other
nutrients.
MR. RILEY: I'm sorry, mine says --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Read the next sentence, Mr. Riley.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: Third sentence, No. 6.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: The third sentence.
MR. RILEY: Is this a milk mustache poster?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: It's one of the posters promoting milk in the
cafeteria.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Well, the first two weren't milk mustache posters
either. I'll allow the question.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q It says be sure to eat milk, cheese and yogurt which pack calcium
and lots of other nutrients. What is that saying?
A You're asking me?
Q What is that saying? It's be sure to eat milk, cheese and yogurt
which pack calcium and lots of other nutrients?
A Well, it's definitely a very misleading statement. I mean, we know,
for example, that high calcium -- it's one of the charts that I had
there -- high calcium consumption is associated with a greater risk of
osteoporosis not lower. And also it's associated with threefold increase
in colon cancer later in life as well. So that statement is simply
extremely misleading.
Q No. 7 says grab a milk. It could help you look good. Is there any
truth to that statement?
A I don't know how to interpret what look good means. Dairy has also
been shown, too, in a Harvard study recently that it's the chief cause
of teenage acne.
MR. RILEY: Objection. Question has been answered. The question was
grab a milk. It could help you look good. I thought Dr. Campbell said I
don't know how to interpret that. That's it. That answers the question.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Okay.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Will drinking milk make you look good?
A Well, if acne makes a person look good, then I say no, it does not,
and dairy is the chief cause of acne.
Q So if you want to look good, then you don't want to have acne, you
probably shouldn't drink milk?
A That said, though, however, obviously dairy nor any other food
causes allergic responses in all the kids. It's a proportion of them. So
-- but it just happened to be --
Q Some studies suggest that drinking three glasses of low fat or fat
free milk each day gives your body the nutrients it needs like protein
to help build muscle. What do you think of that statement?
A That's very misleading, too. That's one of the things that actually
has driven the public perception of the health value of milk which its
protein content. That's been the -- that's been known for five or six
decades. That argument has been made that dairy is a good source of
protein, high quality protein fat. If I knew anything when I was growing
up on the dairy farm was -- that may be the only thing I knew about
protein and so forth. But now, it's wrong. It's just wrong. Very
misleading.
Q Would it be your recommendation that those milk posters be taken
down immediately?
MR. RILEY: Objection as to whether they should be taken down
immediately. He was going to talk about the content of the milk posters,
not what should be done with them.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: He can make a recommendation. I'll allow it.
THE WITNESS: I think it should be taken down. I'm very much aware,
however, of the forces in society, you know, that allow it to be there
and this information hasn't quite filtered, I think maybe to the level
of the individual who's doing these kind of things. So I hate to -- I
don't want to be too categorical, too black and white in that kind of
answer. Just in a general statement, yes, they should be removed.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Would you say that that's your personal beliefs or that's based on
science?
A Oh, it's based on science. If I had my personal preference -- if I
was going to express my personal belief, I would have stayed where I
was.
Q Do you think that a teacher should be talking about truth in
school?
MR. RILEY: Objection.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sustained.
BY MR. DAVID WARWAK:
Q Do you believe milk mustache posters to be false, do they have any
place in the school?
A No, they don't.
Q Do you have anything in your book about the milk mustache posters?
MR. RILEY: Objection about what's in Dr. Campbell's book.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I'll allow it.
MR. RILEY: He's here to testify --
ARBITRATOR SIMON: I'll allow him to answer the question.
THE WITNESS: I don't recall whether I had something in there or not.
We certainly discussed the dairy but I can't remember.
MR. DAVID WARWAK: I don't remember it either. I'd like to take a
break.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: For what purpose?
MR. DAVID WARWAK: To get some questions together, to go to the
bathroom. It's been a long morning. I was badgered earlier.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Let's take five minutes.
MR. RILEY: I would like to object to having the questioning
characterized as badgering, though.
ARBITRATOR SIMON: Sustained.
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
As long as public schools serve children milk and chopped-up animals
for lunch, students will disrespect life. School shootings are a
testament how well children learn respect, responsibility, and love from
those they trust to care for them. Humane Education reinforced with a
vegan school lunch will solve many of our most urgent problems.
Teaching carries a great responsibility and should inspire, motivate,
and teach children how to decipher falsehoods. Schools and teachers
promote murder and participate in major societal lies. Our children are
indoctrinated into a violent society just as we were.
Normally intelligent fine people never question much of anything
under the trance of meat and dairy and that--especially when coupled
with the idea--whatever the status quo is, must be normal and right.
Conformity and denial allows otherwise good people to eat meat and drink
milk unimpeded as no locust in a swarm feels individually responsible
for the ravaged crops left in its wake.
People should be outraged at what the meat and dairy industries have
done to our parents, us, and now our children in schools--the very
places our children trust more than anything to deliver truth and to
model how to behave and survive in the world.
We have been bought and sold long ago and now they are coming after our
children as they did us, our parents, and theirs.
Sad to think, most parents are ignorant and apathetic as they have
adopted schools’ "they are only kids" attitude that further explains "we
can’t change, this is how we were raised".
We have choices. We can go with the status quo and do to our children
what the meat and dairy industries have done to our parents and us; or,
we can avoid the nonsense and tell children the truth about meat and
dairy today. Silence is complicity.
Fox River Grove School District 3 chooses to ignore the 1989
Realities data Warwak presented to the administration (signed for),
concerning the Fox River Grove students and their health, namely the
diseases which are commonly prevented, consistently improved, and
sometimes cured by a low-fat vegetarian diet including but not limited
too: Strokes, Heart disease, Osteoporosis, Kidney Stones, Colon cancer,
Prostate cancer, Pancreatic cancer, Ovarian cancer, Cervical cancer,
Stomach cancer, Endometrial cancer, Breast cancer, Hypoglycemia,
Diabetes, Kidney disease, Peptic ulcers, Constipation, Hemorrhoids,
Hiatal hernias, Diverticulosis, Obesity, Gallstones, Hypertension,
Asthma, Salmonellosis, Trichinosis, Irritable colon syndrome,
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (Human Mad Cow).
What people refuse to understand is that bad people are confining my
friends and torturing them. They are pumping my friends full of drugs
and then slitting their throats. Then they are naming my friends "food"
when they never really were food. And when schools feed trusting
children my chopped-up friends that have feces all over them and
diseases so nasty like Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease which can develop in my
friends' heads in the next 10-15 years, I have to object.
I have to object when schools feed unsuspecting children bovine breast
milk--complete with its blood and pus--that is rife with drugs, heavy
hormones, and cancers. Furthermore, humans are the only specie in the
animal kingdom to drink breast milk beyond infancy. If that is not
condemning enough for those who make excuses for everything--oh, and I
have heard all those lame ass excuses my friends--wonder about this:
Humans are the only animal specie to drink the breast milk of another
specie. Double whammy indeed!
And the final nail in the school lunch milk carton coffin? The dairy
industry’s nasty, nasty, nasty secret: Insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I)
is shared by only two species - a very rare event indeed! IGF-I is
identical in humans and cows. And while I have your attention, we might
as well hammer another nail in that milk carton coffin. Guess what mom
and dad? While you’re busy at work, your school is promoting TUMOR FEED
as a treat with sugar and chocolate added to make unsuspecting little
Sarah Jane drink up – got milk cancer?
Hey dairy industry, fuck you and your evil plot to go after children.
And double fuck you public education for allowing it. And triple fuck
you to the USDA and all those crooked slime-balls who they sleep with.
America is bloody. It’s time to wash the blood off your hands America.
Humane Education reinforced with
a vegan lunch will end school shootings and create a generation that
cares. A generation that saves Earth and themselves by going vegan.
"IGF-I reacts in a synergistic manner with estrogen, and plays a role in
the growth and proliferation of ovarian cancer." Journal of Clinical
Endocrinology, Feb. 1994, 78(2) http://notmilk.com
When we are talking about children’s lives and when we are talking about
our children living some 10 to 12 years longer, I do not want to play
games or worry about people’s pride. Especially when dealing with such
horrific things as Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. Truth be told, each day
this goes on now that we know is an embarrassment to anyone who does
nothing. I at least am outraged and not afraid to say so. Even more
important, I am not one to keep secrets no matter what they have you
believe. And now that news is out, just as schools are worried what the
kids will think of them, the world now knows what the State of Illinois
thinks about children, life and liberty.
The world expects the following:
1. Remove all commercial advertising in all schools.
2. Plant-based diets taught along side meat and dairy diets as part of
the required curriculum so students have a choice.
3. Offer a plant-based hot lunch alterative as varied as the meat-based
hot lunches so the students may have a reasonable choice.
4. Soy milk offering so the children may have a choice
5. All Illinois food service directors are to read “The
China Study” and “The
Food Revolution”
6. Phase out all animal products from the school lunch menu within the
next school year with full compliance no later than Dec 21, 2012.
7. Withhold State $$$ from schools who refuse to instruct teachers about
animals in humane education in their required annual in-service
trainings.
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