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all-creatures.org & Veg-Christian Archives
Christian Witness - Comments and Discussion
This page was started 1 May 1998 and updated 09 Feb 2003
Table of Contents
Christians Who Hear
the Lord and Respond
Should We Focus on Animals?
Should We Focus on Animals? - A Response
Should We Focus on Animals? - A 2nd Response
Should We Focus on Animals? - A 3rd Response
Should We Focus on Animals? - A 4th Response
Christians Who Hear the Lord and Respond - Submitted by Debra 29 Apr 1998
Friends:
Here's another story that was shared with me by a friend. As I read this story, I see how unified we on the list really are. We are hearing God and we are listening. He wants the cruelty and abuse of animals to stop -- amongst other things. The message is loud, the message is clear; but who's hearing it? I know we are and I'm proud to be on a list of people who want to make a difference, who want to stand up for God's Word and His creation. Our Lord isn't cruel; He's kind and loving and forgiving. I hope you find the added strength I did when I read this story.
John 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.
In His Love and Goodness,
Debra
THE TELEGRAPH
Back when the telegraph was the was the fastest method of long-distance communication, a young man applied for a job as a Morse Code operator. Answering an ad in the newspaper, he went to the office address that was listed. When he arrived, he entered a large, busy office filled with noise and clatter, including the sound of the telegraph in the background. A sign on the receptionist's counter instructed job applicants to fill out a form and wait until they were summoned to enter the inner office.
The young man filled out his form and sat down with the seven other applicants in the waiting area. After a few minutes, the young man stood up, crossed the room to the door of the inner office, and walked right in. Naturally the other applicants perked up, wondering what was going on. They muttered among themselves that they hadn't heard
any summons yet. They assumed that the young man who went into the office made a mistake and would be disqualified.
Within a few minutes, however, the employer escorted the young man out of the office and said to the other applicants, "Gentlemen, thank you very much for coming, but the job has just been filled."
The other applicants began grumbling to each other, and one spoke up saying, "Wait a minute, I don't understand. He was the last to come in, and we never even got a chance to be interviewed. Yet he got the job. That's not fair!"
The employer said, "I'm sorry, but all the time you've been sitting here, the telegraph has been ticking out the following message in Morse Code: 'If you understand this message, then come right in. The job is yours.' None of you heard it or understood it. This young man did. The job is his."
We live in a world where not many folks hear what God has to say. Some people are making no attempt to listen, but many are just distracted by the noise and commotion of the world around us. There is so much going on in and around our lives that competes for our attention. But, if we are to truly hear God amidst all the clutter, we must refuse to be distracted and focus our attention on God and His Word.
"I will hear what God the LORD will speak, for He will speak peace to His people and to His saints; but let them not turn back to folly." (Psalm 85:8)
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Should We Focus on Animals? - Submitted 29 Apr 1998 by: Jim Hughes
Fellow believers,
I want to ask a question. (this is NOT contention, it is an honest, open question)…
At what point is it reasonable for Christians to focus themselves, their time, their resources, etc. on protecting animals in specific from being killed, eaten and abused when it is unregenerate (?) man who is the one doing the killing, eating and abusing to begin with? Yes, the RESULT of man's sinfulness is that animals are killed, eaten and abused by man, but this is only a small part of what unregenerate man is about in his sin, anyway. Isn't THAT the point of why our focus should be on seeing people's hearts and minds changed through Christ (i.e. salvation; oh, great, this brings us back to the so-called Great Commission, missions, ministry to people, etc.) rather than focusing on animals in specific? Wouldn't the result of a true conversion experience be that man would see as God sees, feel as He feels, and stop killing, eating and abusing His creation? OH, YOU'D LIKE TO THINK THAT, WOULDN'T YOU?? Good grief!
WELL, THIS OPENS PANDORA'S BOX, DOESN'T IT?? This brings us back to the unfortunate reality that a bazillion people all over the planet who call themselves Christian are the ones doing the killing, eating and abusing (among so many other things that are supporting the World System and destroying the Creation). Is it just me, or is all of this PROFOUNDLY FRUSTRATING? Is it just me, or is there something radically wrong here?
Excuse me, but would the REAL GOD please stand up, and would the multitudes of people who say they have His heart and mind PLEASE ACT LIKE IT! What does it mean to "take the name of the Lord your God in vain"? Cussing? NOT! As far as I'm concerned, it means the same thing as when a woman [the bride] takes the name of her husband [the bridegroom] and then cheats on him [joined to another] or just lives her life completely out of alignment with him, contrary to her VOW. She took his name IN VAIN - to no effect (maybe for his money? maybe for his power and position?) What can it mean when those who've taken the NAME of God are living their lives outside of the way He designed them and all of the created order to work? And so are we just supposed to say, "Oh, we live in a fallen world and we're all just waiting for Jesus to come back and take us to Heaven, and then it will be the way it's supposed to be - but not now, not here", or whatever this or that stripe believes about that. SOMEBODY save me, please - right here and now, or I may as well just eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. You can't have it both ways!
Where is our focus supposed to be? I'm not being contentious here, please don't get me wrong. I am struggling deeply about many issues related to all of this - it's frankly HUGE when you take it all to it logical and reasonable conclusion, and it can mean only one thing - "Those who claim to have Christ must walk as Jesus did"!! That is no small statement! I'm trying to define what I believe, why, and what my life and focus is supposed to be about. I'm trying to sort it all out.
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Should We Focus on Animals? - A Response - Submitted by Nancy Rigsby 30 Apr 1998
Wow, Jim. You raise some mighty big issues that will take a lot of soul searching to answer. For the most part, I think Christians, as well as others, have simply grown up eating animals and have been taught that's how it's supposed to be, so they never questioned it. I know that's where I come from. Recently I met someone who worked for a while in a slaughterhouse until he just couldn't bear it any longer and I came face to face with what really happens to the animals. I never had given it any thought before. I know it sounds cruel but I just didn't. I came to veganism because of a belief that it's a much healthier lifestyle for me, and then I was introduced to the whole issue of cruelty to animals through the e-mail list. I'm not sure just witnessing to people and leading them to Jesus Christ would resolve the animal issue because most Christians are where I used to be.
One final thought - thanks for the words on "taking the Lord's name in vain." Your analogy to a woman taking a man's name in marriage and then not living as his caring, faithful helpmate made that phrase come alive for me. It never quite clicked before. Thanks!
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Should We Focus on Animals? - A Response - Submitted by Debra 1 May 1998
Jim,
I read your post over and over because I really wanted to feel what you were feeling. I didn't want to jump in with handy answers like a little fairy godmother.
You, my brother, are actually in a very good place and are on your way to knowing Jesus. I'd much rather see someone full of questions and concerns rather than full of answers that are pulled out of a hat. While animals are one very OBVIOUS thing on this earth that's being abused, there are many others; some of which are not so obvious at all. There's scripture that tells us that we need to be careful of our behavior for if it makes another stumble, we have sinned. You are right that our lives should reflect that of Jesus'. You are also correct in your post about references in the bible to woman, the bride and the bridegroom. Woman, many times, represents the Church. The Bride represents all of us who come to Christ. We are the body of Christ and therefore the Church. Christ, of course, is the bridegroom. They are all precious and all very necessary. If one is missing, there is no peace. There needs to be unity.
It is interesting to note that on the way in this morning, I learned that there are 60 churches closing every week in America while in other countries, some of which you are threatened by death, there are hundreds of thousands of people being saved on a regular basis (daily, weekly, monthly). America once was a country that ministered to other countries, sent missionaries out, etc., etc. We are now, by other countries standards, considered to be a country that they send missionaries to. This is so very sad. We have fallen and you have every reason to be distressed. We are considered to be a post-Christian nation. Part of the reason for this is that people don't gently and politely mention Jesus any more. And while I love animals as much as I love all of creation, everyone has to be approached differently. If they don't have Jesus first, they will not understand anything we have to say about the suffering of animals. Our first priority, my friend, is letting people know that Jesus will one day return and to help them, lovingly, find joy and peace in Him so that when He does come they are ready. Once a person experiences the joy and peace of Jesus, other things seem to fall into place.
Jim, not all out there that call themselves Christians are truly Christians. They might not even realize it and because of this we have to be very careful yet very honest with them. You wrote: "Wouldn't the result of a true conversion experience be that man would see as God sees, feel as He feels, and stop killing, eating and abusing His creation?" Jim, believe it or not, you are right on target here. Jesus tells us that His sheep know Him and will hear His voice and follow Him. You're there my friend. Keep listening. Relax in Him and let Him guide you.
I better quit for now as I fear I have written so much that you might not have time to read all. Keep on posting. This is the way of fellowship and in fellowship we find the Lord. When two or more are gathered in my name . . . .
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Should We Focus on Animals? - A Response - Submitted by Frank L. Hoffman 2 May 1998
Dear Veggie Friends:
When Debra wrote that she was glad to be on the List with others who understood the insights that she has, she was expressing her openness to receiving all that the Holy Spirit has, and continues to give her. Likewise, she was acknowledging that the One and same Holy Spirit has given those same gifts of spiritual insight to others.
When Jim wrote about his frustration over why the majority of Christianity doesn't accept the seemingly obvious fact that the suffering we cause the animals couldn't be what God wants us to to do, he is also acknowledging that our One and same Holy Spirit is speaking to all of us equally with the same insights.
When Nancy wrote that she had never thought about our relationship to the animals until she became part of our discussion group, she, too, was acknowledging the "Wow!" of the revelation we receive when we tune ourselves fully to the Holy Spirit, for the Lord is constantly teaching us that we might fully mature, which most likely won't happen to any of us until we're with the Lord in heaven, and maybe not even then.
When Jim and Debra question why so many "believers" haven't come to the point of recognition that the animals are God's creatures, too, and that we are to care for them and protect them, and not eat them, they are focusing upon our immaturity as Christians. Whether or not this lack of maturity, this lack of sensitivity to the suffering that we, as a society, are causing the animals leaves us something "less" than a Christian, is something that we should really leave to the Lord. And, I include Mary and myself among you, for we, too, question how so many people, who call themselves Christians, could be so insensitive and limit their love and compassion.
I believe that Nancy's reaction to the pain and suffering of animals is what we expect to find in others when we, and the Holy Spirit, enlighten them to the truth. Our frustration comes from not seeing this awakening, and even more so when we observe an outright rejection of the obvious truth.
What is happening, I believe, is that we are experiencing the same type of frustration that the prophets of old experienced. God gives us all this insight, just as His gift of Jesus came for everyone, but not everyone wants to accept the whole truth. In fact, only a few accept the truth. And I believe this is why the Lord told us that broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few are those who accept it. And, as a pastor, I can tell you, this is even more frustrating.
I was recent told that I have been given a special insight that others don't possess, and I don't believe this in the least. What is "special" to this person, is my willingness to accept what the majority of others don't want to accept or face the truth about, a truth that this person acknowledges, but won't accept, either. People don't want to acknowledge the truth, because then they become responsible for changing their lifestyle, and they don't want to; thus, they deny the truth.
So, my fellow "prophets", let us continue be strong in the Lord, and soft of heart, never tiring of spreading the whole truth of the Good News; that all creatures might praise Him here below; and that the whole of creation will see the revealing of the sons and daughters of God. When we feel as frustrated as Elijah, and feel that we are all alone, let us remember that the Lord told Elijah that He had also preserved 7,000 others who were like-minded. Is our e-mail discussion List part of the way in which the Lord encourages us, and seeks to strengthen us? I believe it is. And, if at times we weep as did Jeremiah, know for certain that the Lord weeps with us.
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Should We Focus on Animals - A Response - Submitted by A. J. Fecko 2 May 1998
I don't think everyone is called to do exactly the same thing. We all have been given different gifts and callings. It is important to work for the redemption of man. But it would be folly to say that therefore no one should concentrate their efforts on the animal rights issues. The US abolition movement in its earliest form sought to reform society in many ways in an effort to reform human nature. But if they had never started to concentrate their efforts on the slavery issue slavery would not have, in all probability, ever been abolished (at least not in that century). That's not to say that I think everyone must dedicate their time to the AR cause. Just that I don't think that our Father wishes everyone to tread exactly the same path in life.
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