Torturing a Bull for Saint John
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Torturing a Bull for Saint John
Read the article that sparked these comments: Torturing a Bull for Saint John
Comments by A. J. Fecko - 1 May 2008
Here is my reply to Jim:
In a message dated 4/27/2008 11:15:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, you wrote:
I read your article, "Torturing a Bull for Saint John" Comments by A J Fecko - 2 Jun 2007, and came across the following quote:
"In Port Royal in Paris, France, there was a Jansenist seminary where people tortured animals on a regular basis. They taught Cartesianism, and practiced extremely cruel vivisection in order to desensitize themselves from all feelings of compassion. The priests from this seminary were considered to be very holy by the populace because they were very austere and strict. When one of the Port Royal deacons, Abbe Paris, died, his tomb in Paris became for many people a site of veneration."
What is the source of this quote?
Many detailed histories of vivisection make reference to Port Royal.
If the supporters of the Jansenists considered the practices of the Jansenists to be "very holy" then these supporters must also approve of these cruel practices.
That's assuming this was widely known. Most vivisectors will not torture animals in public.
Surely you must have some source from a Jansenist who affirms that this cruel atrocity went on there. Much has been written about it and I've read a lot on the controversy.
Why must it be from a Jansenist? I think Nicolas Fontaine recorded some of the hideous things that happened at Port Royal. If it is your opinion that he or others fabricated this, you have the right to your opinion. I'm only stating what others have written.
But this charge of cruelty to animals is a charge that I never came across. If it is true, it is truly scandalous and disgusting and I am deeply offended. But if it is merely a lie made up for want of truth, then I'm offended by those who promote the lie. Jesus said over three dozen times, "I tell you the truth" and he hates liars (and he is coming soon to judge the living and the dead):
John 8:44 [Jesus says,] You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [NIV]
I don't see where I've lied. If you have any evidence that those that said they witnessed dogs being tortured at Port Royal were making it up, I'd be very happy to hear it.
And, the supposed healings of those who came to the tomb of the Abbe de Paris must all be fakes and frauds, every one of them. You cannot get a single good fruit from a worthless tree. Jesus made that quite clear:
Luke 6:43-44 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers
That's assuming that they were genuine cures and not diseases going into temporary remission. A person with OCD may feel temporary relief by giving in to his compulsion, but doing this makes the OCD worse in the long run. I agree evil spirits cannot cure disease, but that doesn't rule out the possibility they could make symptoms go into a temporary hiatus. Also, how do we know that the Abbe was the only person these people prayed to. They likely prayed to God, Mary, and many saints before their cure. Also, i'm virtually certain there were Catholic saints in the 17th and 18th centuries that opposed Jansenism. In order to be a saint, there must be 4 miracles in your name. Where did these miracles come from? However, the primary manifestation connected to the Abbe's tomb were the contagious convulsions. I personally don't see any reason to conclude this came from heaven.
A. J. Fecko
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